Older types of fluorescent lamp now hard to find.

[whole diary]

[broadgage]

Some years ago, the manufacture or import of certain fluorescent lamps was prohibited for energy saving reasons.
Mainly the fatter tubes, one and one half inches in diameter, known as T12.
Existing stocks could be sold or used without concern, but availability is now declining.

These lamps are used in some older trains. So if you are involved in any preservation group, you may wish to stock up if your rolling stock uses these lamps.

Also be aware that older mains voltage fluorescent light fittings in heritage railway buildings may use these lamps. In SOME CASES the newer type of slimline lamps can be used as replacements in mains fittings but NOT ALWAYS.
If the fitting uses a starter, then a slimline lamp will usually be fine, but starterless fittings may need the older T12 tubes.

[broadgage]

Worth updating this old thread to add,

That the older types of fluorescent are now in very short supply and hard to find. If you are involved in a preserved railway or other enterprise that uses these lamps, stock up if you can, or look for alternatives.

And it has recently been announced that the newer T8 fluorescent lamps are to be banned in a couple of years time. Time to consider alternatives or to stock up.

Of particular importance for heritage railways is lighting of Mark two BR^▸ (British Rail(ways)) coaches. Many of these use fluorescent lamps. LED conversion units are available BUT MAY NOT WORK CORRECTLY OR AT ALL in railway light fittings as these use battery ballasts.

Most heritage railways accept the use of modern lighting in workshops, so that should be of little concern.

Old fluorescent lights in booking offices and waiting rooms might be a problem, stock up on spares.

[broadgage]

Worth updating this old thread to add that most newer types of fluorescent lamp are now in short supply.

Manufacture or import of many types was banned some time ago, and supplies are now becoming short.
The ban includes all common types of 14 watts and up.
Exemptions include various special types of lamp for water purification, insect killers, cosmetic skin tanning, and printing processes, and lamps of 13 watts or less.

Many suppliers offer LED alternatives, but these are not compatible with all types of light fitting. Battery ballasts as used on TRAINS AND BUSES are often not compatible with LED retrofit tubes.

If you are are involved in a heritage railway that uses these lamps, I would obtain a supply. Not only for lighting in trains but for station buildings if wanting to keep an original look in places on public view.

[onthecushions]

There was a thread elsewhere, link below, that discusses this, although not specifically flourescent lamps.

Looks like LED's are a very positive, power saving factor, for heritage stock, if colour match can be achieved. An LED uses half the power of a flourescent, and a tenth of an incandescent lamp for the same lumens output.


https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/internal-lighting-of-heritage-coaches.103377/

OTC

[ellendune]

White LED lights are fluorescent lamps, so there should it is possible to get a colour match.   

If they are not compatible with the ballast then surely some rewiring inside the fitting to bypass the ballast would solve the problem.

[broadgage]

There was a thread elsewhere, link below, that discusses this, although not specifically flourescent lamps.

Looks like LED's are a very positive, power saving factor, for heritage stock, if colour match can be achieved. An LED uses half the power of a flourescent, and a tenth of an incandescent lamp for the same lumens output.


https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/internal-lighting-of-heritage-coaches.103377/

OTC

There is a great deal to be said for replacing incandescent bulbs in railway coaches with LEDs, the power saving and improved light is most welcome.
The night time gloom in many heritage railway coaches is not very appealing ! and no it is not authentic. When such stock was in regular mainline use, the correct bulbs were fitted, often 24 volt, 25 watt, and of a type designed for reasonably efficient illumination.
Unfortunately the correct bulbs are seldom used today. The tendency is to use either "bus bulbs" of 22 watts rating, these are by convention called "24 volt" but are actually designed for about 28 volts, that being the voltage on a bus when the engine is running and the battery is on charge. A 28 volt bulb run at 24 volts gives a miserable light.
Even worse are 25 volt 15 watt pygmy bulbs, these are intended for use as indicator or warning lamps and not for illumination, and also give a miserable light.
A 3 watt LED will give a similar light to the originally intended bulbs, and a great deal more light than bus bulbs or pilot lamps. They give a constant light over a wide voltage range.

However this thread is about the declining availability of FLUORESCENT TUBES as used in some later BR^▸ (British Rail(ways)) era coaches. There is no SIMPLE way to substitute LEDs in such cases.
Many suppliers offer linear LED tubes that are claimed to replace fluorescent lamps, but these are generally compatible with mains voltage fittings and wont work from the 24/25 volt supply found on many trains.

[Electric train]

However this thread is about the declining availability of FLUORESCENT TUBES as used in some later BR^▸ (British Rail(ways)) era coaches. There is no SIMPLE way to substitute LEDs in such cases.
Many suppliers offer linear LED tubes that are claimed to replace fluorescent lamps, but these are generally compatible with mains voltage fittings and wont work from the 24/25 volt supply found on many trains.

BR Mk2^▸ (Mark 2 coach) coaches used bulk inverters from the 24V system to power the fluorescent lighting, all of the retro fits used smaller inverters mounted withe lights often powering a cluster of lamps.

To make standard LED lighting work with the 24V systems on rolling stock the use of a DC^▸ (Direct Current)-DC converter will allow the matching of the replacement lamps and the battery Voltage these will also regulate the Voltage so the lamp intensity will remain constant.

[stuving]

To make standard LED lighting work with the 24V systems on rolling stock the use of a DC^▸ (Direct Current)-DC converter will allow the matching of the replacement lamps and the battery Voltage these will also regulate the Voltage so the lamp intensity will remain constant.

I have some MR16 lamps sold for use on 12V DC van/caravan supplies. On closer inspection they are marked (as is the packaging) as 8-30V AC or DC. Given that most domestic supplies, at any voltage, are AC, I suspect almost all lamps use the same standard internal circuit of rectifier/reservoir/switching inverter or dropper. In that case handling 8-30V AC or DC comes almost by default.

The trouble is, of course, that you need a supply of them known to be to that specification, and no single market of any size is going to call for it. So you probably won't find them specified as such unless you go to a more expensive supplier.

[Electric train]

To make standard LED lighting work with the 24V systems on rolling stock the use of a DC^▸ (Direct Current)-DC converter will allow the matching of the replacement lamps and the battery Voltage these will also regulate the Voltage so the lamp intensity will remain constant.

I have some MR16 lamps sold for use on 12V DC van/caravan supplies. On closer inspection they are marked (as is the packaging) as 8-30V AC or DC. Given that most domestic supplies, at any voltage, are AC, I suspect almost all lamps use the same standard internal circuit of rectifier/reservoir/switching inverter or dropper. In that case handling 8-30V AC or DC comes almost by default.

The trouble is, of course, that you need a supply of them known to be to that specification, and no single market of any size is going to call for it. So you probably won't find them specified as such unless you go to a more expensive supplier.

Not quite as simple as it sounds, a cheap and simple solution used for ac/dc LED lamps is simple potential divider, a diode, capacitor and Zener diode to limit the Voltage.  Its only the more expensive verities that have electronics built into them.