Eurostar - snapshot of current services

[whole diary]

[Robin Summerhill]

.......... but I hate to think what state we would be in if without his oven ready deal

Perhaps he misspoke (again?) - it might have only been "shovel ready"....

I know what sort of shovel Im thinking of. What sort of shovel are you thinking of?

[stuving]

Stopping cross-channel transport cuts both ways of course. There's a lot of French living over here, mostly in London, and many of them (notably the younger/single ones) were planning to go home for a family Christmas (Eve). I've heard a figure of 40,000 mentioned, though that sounds a bit much for capacity. A lot of them are trying to work out how to get a PCR test done, as the announced plan is that one will be required under the new rules starting on Wednesday.

[grahame]

From City a.m.

The transport secretary has poured cold water on hopes that the UK^▸ (United Kingdom) would lead the rescue of the struggling Eurostar rail link.

Speaking to MPs^▸ (Member of Parliament, or Mile Post (a method of measuring the railway in miles and chains from a starting point - usually London), depending on context) on the Transport Select Committee this morning, Grant Shapps said that the cross-channel service was “not our company to rescue”.

[TonyK]

From City a.m.

The transport secretary has poured cold water on hopes that the UK^▸ (United Kingdom) would lead the rescue of the struggling Eurostar rail link.

Speaking to MPs^▸ (Member of Parliament, or Mile Post (a method of measuring the railway in miles and chains from a starting point - usually London), depending on context) on the Transport Select Committee this morning, Grant Shapps said that the cross-channel service was “not our company to rescue”.

The minister is correct. Eurostar is now owned by Eurostar International Ltd.  EIL is owned by SNCF^▸ (Societe Nationale des Chemins de fer Francais - French National Railways) (55%, France), Caisse de dépôt et placement du Québec (CDPQ) (30%, Canada), Hermes Infrastructure (10%, USA) and NMBS/SNCB (5%, Belgium). The tunnel itself is owned by Getlink. I think the UK has successfully washed its hands of that, too, although so much has changed since the original company was formed that it is hard to tell.

[eightonedee]

The minister is correct. Eurostar is now owned by Eurostar International Ltd.  EIL is owned by SNCF^▸ (Societe Nationale des Chemins de fer Francais - French National Railways) (55%, France), Caisse de dépôt et placement du Québec (CDPQ) (30%, Canada), Hermes Infrastructure (10%, USA) and NMBS/SNCB (5%, Belgium). The tunnel itself is owned by Getlink. I think the UK^▸ (United Kingdom) has successfully washed its hands of that, too, although so much has changed since the original company was formed that it is hard to tell.

At one level that is correct, but at another level it is also part of UK plc's infrastructure. That's what neither the right wing privatise it all brigade nor the left wing nationalise it all brigade understand. A government has responsibilities that go beyond "is it a state asset?", and owners of infrastructure have to remember that they have responsibilities (often written into legislation, but going beyond this) to the society for whom they are providing the relevant services.

[TonyK]

At one level that is correct, but at another level it is also part of UK^▸ (United Kingdom) plc's infrastructure. That's what neither the right wing privatise it all brigade nor the left wing nationalise it all brigade understand. A government has responsibilities that go beyond "is it a state asset?", and owners of infrastructure have to remember that they have responsibilities (often written into legislation, but going beyond this) to the society for whom they are providing the relevant services.

The inevitable compromise may reflect that, but the government here will insist that the owners bear the financial burden until that can be taken no further. I am sure that the minister will "work closely with them"^* to ensure that they can speedily resume their commercial activities.

(^*Translation: "You're on your own, let us know when you've sorted it.")

[grahame]

The minister is correct. Eurostar is now owned by Eurostar International Ltd.  EIL is owned by SNCF^▸ (Societe Nationale des Chemins de fer Francais - French National Railways) (55%, France), Caisse de dépôt et placement du Québec (CDPQ) (30%, Canada), Hermes Infrastructure (10%, USA) and NMBS/SNCB (5%, Belgium). The tunnel itself is owned by Getlink. I think the UK^▸ (United Kingdom) has successfully washed its hands of that, too, although so much has changed since the original company was formed that it is hard to tell.

At one level that is correct, but at another level it is also part of UK plc's infrastructure. That's what neither the right wing privatise it all brigade nor the left wing nationalise it all brigade understand. A government has responsibilities that go beyond "is it a state asset?", and owners of infrastructure have to remember that they have responsibilities (often written into legislation, but going beyond this) to the society for whom they are providing the relevant services.

Can I clarify?   The tunnel is owned by Getlink who also operate Le Shuttle through it.  They receive an income from Eurostar who pay to run their passenger trains through.  So a failure of Eurostar would not close the tunnel - just limit it to shuttle trains and freight (Db run this!).  Shuttle trains can take coaches, and another operator could run passenger trains too.

So - if Eurostar fails, someone else can have a go??

[TonyK]

Can I clarify?   The tunnel is owned by Getlink who also operate Le Shuttle through it.  They receive an income from Eurostar who pay to run their passenger trains through.  So a failure of Eurostar would not close the tunnel - just limit it to shuttle trains and freight (Db run this!).  Shuttle trains can take coaches, and another operator could run passenger trains too.

So - if Eurostar fails, someone else can have a go??

One would assume so, although I would imagine that the bureaucracy behind such a move would be quite daunting for a private operator. Maybe Go-op could come up with a plan?

[patch38]

So - if Eurostar fails, someone else can have a go??

Slightly unfair on Eurostar: it's unlikely that another operator would do any better in the present circumstances.

[grahame]

So - if Eurostar fails, someone else can have a go??

Slightly unfair on Eurostar: it's unlikely that another operator would do any better in the present circumstances.

Maybe - perhaps I was playing Devil's advocate.   But the logical extension is that if it's a commercial operation set up to make a profit, and doesn't, then either someone else could try, or could try something else.  Or perhaps there's no case for such services any more now with the different relationship between the UK^▸ (United Kingdom) and mainland Europe?   Still playing Devil's advocate ...

[TonyN]

Maybe Go-op could come up with a plan?

Well D Stock is designed to be used in tunnels.

[stuving]

The construction and legal status of the tunnel is governed by the bilateral Treaty of Canterbury (1986). This doesn't make clear whether "operation" includes running the shuttle trains, but I think it does. In any case everything not in the treaty is a matter for the Intergovernmental Commission, including the revision of the protocols that extend the treaty. Some aspects of train services and the companies operating them do get considered, though it's not clear which.

Safety is the biggest issue for the IGC, but any matter calling for joint action (or inaction) has to come here too. There are some short minutes of meetings, but not of last one due in December. No doubt adaptations needed for Brexit have been keeping them busy; a new agreement between the ORR^» (Office of Rail and Road, formerly Office of Rail Regulation - about) and the EPSF (their oppos) was published a few days ago.

Labour regulations is one matter for which a protocol is specified in the treaty, but while the minutes of the last meeting note that Eurostar have made use of furlough provisions, that protocol is not mentioned. Presumably any other support would be discussed first in the IGC, but after that ...

[Electric train]

So - if Eurostar fails, someone else can have a go??

Slightly unfair on Eurostar: it's unlikely that another operator would do any better in the present circumstances.

Maybe - perhaps I was playing Devil's advocate.   But the logical extension is that if it's a commercial operation set up to make a profit, and doesn't, then either someone else could try, or could try something else.  Or perhaps there's no case for such services any more now with the different relationship between the UK^▸ (United Kingdom) and mainland Europe?   Still playing Devil's advocate ...

It is the fire and other safety regulations that have dissuaded other operators like DB^» (Deutsche Bahn - German State Railway - about), also BREXIT added to DB decision.

Let face it with the current government's anti Europe position they are not likely to assist with anything that links us with Europe

[TonyK]

Let face it with the current government's anti Europe position they are not likely to assist with anything that links us with Europe

Au contraire. Mainland Europe will still be a major source of our trade, both ways, once we have reached a compromise. It's just that our government isn't likely to start throwing money at offshore companies operating largely outside of the UK^▸ (United Kingdom). I am sure that everything possible will be done to facilitate a proper resumption of traffic, short of payments. We could, for example, agree to turn a blind eye to generous state aid in the sector.

Remember that in the UK, much of our railway is operated by state-owned companies. Just not our state.

[grahame]

There are 2 a couple of possible reasons for not stopping at Ebbsfleet and Ashford, UK^▸ (United Kingdom) Boarder Force may have redeployed there staff to other duties also the France may have reduced its staff levels added to the fact that passenger levels at both these stations is not high at the best of times.

From Rail Magazine

Eurostar services will not call at either Ebbsfleet or Ashford International station during 2023, the cross-channel operator has confirmed.

Both HS1^▸ (High Speed line 1 - St Pancras to Channel Tunnel) stations were shut at the beginning of the Coronavirus pandemic, with the company announcing last year that they would not reopen until 2023 at the earliest.

A Eurostar spokesman blamed “an uncertain and fragile environment” for the continued closure, citing COVID-19 and Brexit as heavily influencing the latest decision.

I wonder if Eurostar will ever call at Ebbsfleet or Ashford again - are Covid and Brexit convenient reasons given for them to give up something that from a business viewpoint had become a bit of an unprofitable nuisance to them?