Night Sleeper - next generation

[whole diary]

[southwest]

The Night Riviera could be a fantastic service if it was properly supported. The current locomotives for it aren't the best, even though they we're overhauled in 2016 they are back to being problematic again    The current Mk3s still have slam doors and are against official regulation.

I get the impression that the rolling stock won't be changed and in 5 or 10 years time they'll make out the rolling stock is too old, the service doesn't make money and that IET^▸ (Intercity Express Train)'s are able to provide faster journey's, we'll then get proposals for a later evening Penzance departure and an earlier service than the 05:05 Golden Hind.

[Umberleigh]

Is an IET^▸ (Intercity Express Train) body shell so radically different from a Mk3 than you couldn’t equip an IET with those airline First Class seats that  become beds with the privacy walls (sorry, don’t know how to describe them but you see them on the adverts):::?

[Celestial]

Is an IET^▸ (Intercity Express Train) body shell so radically different from a Mk3 than you couldn’t equip an IET with those airline First Class seats that  become beds with the privacy walls (sorry, don’t know how to describe them but you see them on the adverts):::?

I've wondered why flat beds aren't used too, but I think safety precludes them from being used facing along the carriage due to the pressure on the neck in the event of a collision if lying down.

[Sleepy]

The Night Riviera could be a fantastic service if it was properly supported. The current locomotives for it aren't the best, even though they we're overhauled in 2016 they are back to being problematic again    The current Mk3s still have slam doors and are against official regulation.

I get the impression that the rolling stock won't be changed and in 5 or 10 years time they'll make out the rolling stock is too old, the service doesn't make money and that IET^▸ (Intercity Express Train)'s are able to provide faster journey's, we'll then get proposals for a later evening Penzance departure and an earlier service than the 05:05 Golden Hind.

Perhaps Serco will have some spare stock when Mrs Krankie combines Lowlander/Highlander when she runs out of money ?   

[broadgage]

The merit of the sleeper is the provision of a proper flat bed in a private room. In which one may change in privacy and sleep in proper bedding.

Any improvisations involving airline seats that sort of convert into not a proper flat bed, would be a significant downgrade. And experiences of both GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway) and new rolling stock suggest a lot of extra things to go wrong. Seat wont fold into ersatz bed. Fake bed wont change back into a seat. Gets stuck part way. Privacy screen drops off or gets stuck. GWR forget to supply pillows and blankets. Bookings don't work, or get transferred to a different service. Hitachi sends wrong train.
Train cancelled from Plymouth as wont couple to the other portion.

[IndustryInsider]

The old couchettes on European sleeper trains used to go down well with the great unwashed InterRailer’s I remember.

[TaplowGreen]

The merit of the sleeper is the provision of a proper flat bed in a private room. In which one may change in privacy and sleep in proper bedding.

Any improvisations involving airline seats that sort of convert into not a proper flat bed, would be a significant downgrade. And experiences of both GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway) and new rolling stock suggest a lot of extra things to go wrong. Seat wont fold into ersatz bed. Fake bed wont change back into a seat. Gets stuck part way. Privacy screen drops off or gets stuck. GWR forget to supply pillows and blankets. Bookings don't work, or get transferred to a different service. Hitachi sends wrong train.
Train cancelled from Plymouth as wont couple to the other portion.

I was lucky enough to fly Emirates Business Class in a "bed" and both the experience and the service received throughout were something the railways could probably only dream of.

It would be interesting to see the two go "head to head" for quality.

Give it a try Broadgage, you may surprise yourself - they even have Port on aircraft these days! 

[Jamsdad]

The Australians run this sort of "sleeper". Seat 61 has the details https://www.seat61.com/Australia.htm#Brisbane-Townsville-Cairns.
I cant see the Cornish liking that sort of thing. Cornwall and Isles of Scilly LEP^» (Local Enterprise Partnership - about) will continue to give strong support for the status quo.

[Celestial]

The Australians run this sort of "sleeper". Seat 61 has the details https://www.seat61.com/Australia.htm#Brisbane-Townsville-Cairns.
I cant see the Cornish liking that sort of thing. Cornwall and Isles of Scilly LEP^» (Local Enterprise Partnership - about) will continue to give strong support for the status quo.

Those flatbeds look excellent. I'd happily have an overnight journey in them. Indeed, if it wasn't for the minor health issue that seems to be troubling everyone at the moment I'd be tempted to book my flatbed out there to try out the flatbed.  Hoping to do The Overland too before it disappears forever, though I think that might be touch and go by the time we can all travel again.

[broadgage]

I was lucky enough to fly Emirates Business Class in a "bed" and both the experience and the service received throughout were something the railways could probably only dream of.

It would be interesting to see the two go "head to head" for quality.

Give it a try Broadgage, you may surprise yourself - they even have Port on aircraft these days! 

I would be reluctant to fly, due to concerns about climate change, even if enticed by Port.
I am also VERY doubtful about improvised sleeping arrangements, and try to avoid folding beds, air beds, camp beds, sofa beds, and any bed that converts from something else.
Folding beds=risk of collapse
Air beds=burst or leak.
Camp beds=risk of the canvas ripping and dumping me on the ground.

[TaplowGreen]

I was lucky enough to fly Emirates Business Class in a "bed" and both the experience and the service received throughout were something the railways could probably only dream of.

It would be interesting to see the two go "head to head" for quality.

Give it a try Broadgage, you may surprise yourself - they even have Port on aircraft these days! 

I would be reluctant to fly, due to concerns about climate change, even if enticed by Port.
I am also VERY doubtful about improvised sleeping arrangements, and try to avoid folding beds, air beds, camp beds, sofa beds, and any bed that converts from something else.
Folding beds=risk of collapse
Air beds=burst or leak.
Camp beds=risk of the canvas ripping and dumping me on the ground.

......perhaps they'll install a four poster for you?

[IndustryInsider]

Perhaps the next generation of night sleeper accommodation for the Night Riviera could include a halfway house between the seating and sleeping berths, with couchette style seats - a modern variant of the ones that were once commonplace on night trains in Europe?

Priced accordingly to appeal to a different market to those that want something on a premium level, but don’t fancy slumming it in the seats.

I would certainly suggest Mk V coaches (like the Caledonian Sleeper has) with a Class 68/88 combination.  The Class 88 working on electric under the wires and the Class 68 on the diesel bits.  Should the 68 fail then you have the Diesel engine on the Class 88 to at least get the train to the next station.

Would the sums work out though?  We’re looking several years into the future minimum though, and who knows what lasting impact the current situation will have.

[Bmblbzzz]

The old couchettes on European sleeper trains used to go down well with the great unwashed InterRailer’s I remember.

Couchettes did create a totally flat bed. And although there was no privacy strictly speaking, you were usually in a compartment with from 3 to 5 others of your choosing. And, in relation to Celestial's point about safety, they were aligned laterally, across the direction of travel. Sometimes there was even an attendant serving tea and coffee...

[TaplowGreen]

Perhaps the next generation of night sleeper accommodation for the Night Riviera could include a halfway house between the seating and sleeping berths, with couchette style seats - a modern variant of the ones that were once commonplace on night trains in Europe?

Priced accordingly to appeal to a different market to those that want something on a premium level, but don’t fancy slumming it in the seats.

I would certainly suggest Mk V coaches (like the Caledonian Sleeper has) with a Class 68/88 combination.  The Class 88 working on electric under the wires and the Class 68 on the diesel bits.  Should the 68 fail then you have the Diesel engine on the Class 88 to at least get the train to the next station.

Would the sums work out though?  We’re looking several years into the future minimum though, and who knows what lasting impact the current situation will have.

Possibly a bit of a radical concept for the railways, but why not survey current customers/users of the sleeper & find out what they'd suggest, and also target the sort of demographic who may consider it in the future & ask the same question, as well as what may put them off the option?

Feedback is a gift if you listen to it.

[IndustryInsider]

Good ideas, though perhaps a Broadgage style survey has already been done?  If the result of that doesn't lead to the Night Riviera being axed completely, perhaps it's best to wait until GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway) have actually committed to replacing the current fleet.  You know, manage expectations and all that.