Petition - Railcard for train spotting?

[whole diary]

[TaplowGreen]

I think trainspotters are looked upon with affectionate bemusement rather than in a derogatory way.

There's a hierarchy too. Line bashers look down on those who collect loco numbers. Loco spotters look down on carriage spotters. Carriage spotters look down on those who collect freight wagon numbers. And they all look down on bus enthusiasts.

.....that helps to explain the bemusement.

[Phil]

I think a Railcard scheme would be a good idea so that genuine trainspotters could be recognised

I have to say that in my experience, it doesn't require a railcard to recognise a rail enthusiast - and I'd imagine that staff are even more adept at spotting them than I am. I'm fairly sure at Westbury for example (where I spend most of my time getting on or off or just waiting) that most of the regulars are known to the staff there by name.

[Clan Line]

Bad idea !!

Any person has a right to access a station (except in emergency - terror/UXB/accident/etc). A card makes it all to easy for that right to become a paid for "privilege" which any jobsworth on a barrier can remove. The very liberal interpretation of the Penalty Fares system in some locations already seems to point that way.

I have had several meaningful discussions with barrier staff about accessing a platform when not travelling - when I asked for the Duty Manager I was invariably let through !
I would have no objection to purchasing a platform ticket (at 1d ?  ) - but I know at least one of my local TOCs^▸ (Train Operating Company) (SWT^▸ (South West Trains)) had told their staff not to sell them. Didn't that break the rules about ticket sales ? Another TOC (FGW^▸ (First Great Western)) thought I was bonkers when I asked if I could buy a  platform ticket - at an "open" station ! When I explained that I didn't actually want one, I just wanted to know if they would sell me one, they said they could.

[grahame]

Any person has a right to access a station (except in emergency - terror/UXB/accident/etc). ....

Not quite ..."Withdrawal of Implied Permission"

From Byline Times

Homeless people risk being banned from their local train station under an increasingly used order called a Withdrawal of Implied Permission (WIP).

Data obtained by Byline Times shows that between 2013 and the end of 2017 483 people were banned from train stations under these orders. Although the number issued dropped after the first year they were introduced, it has steadily increased since 2015.

Withdrawal of Implied Permission orders are designed to be used against people engaging in ‘anti-social behaviour’ but there are concerns they could disproportionately target homeless people. Examples of behaviour that could lead to an order being issued have been listed on notices in various train stations. As well as offences such as shoplifting the examples include: begging, loitering, persistent rough sleeping and alcohol related crimes.

In 2016 British Transport Police working at London Victoria station tweeted a picture of such a notice while commenting that “begging in and around the station could result in a 6 month ban” and encouraging people to report “unwanted behaviour”.

I'm not sure of the procedure for issuing these notices, but they do exist and include "loitering" in the list of reasons for their issue which is, after all, what train spotters do in the gaps between services ...

[Robin Summerhill]

I’m not sure that anyone has a right as such to enter a station because they are on private land.

One clearly has a right to enter a station if you have bought a ticket, because you have then entered into a contract with a company to take you somewhere by rail. In order to access their service, you need then to enter the station. But that is for a specific purpose and not a general right.

You would not expect to be allowed to go airside in an airport to watch planes. You can watch them quite satisfactorily from landside, in exactly the same way as you could watch trains from outside the station.

It is sometimes forgotten that in previous years canal towpaths were just as private as railway land when it came to public access. Those rules tended to be overtaken by events as the canal networks were formally abandoned and became derelict, but they were still technically in place.

[stuving]

Bad idea !!

Any person has a right to access a station (except in emergency - terror/UXB/accident/etc). A card makes it all to easy for that right to become a paid for "privilege" which any jobsworth on a barrier can remove. The very liberal interpretation of the Penalty Fares system in some locations already seems to point that way.

I have had several meaningful discussions with barrier staff about accessing a platform when not travelling - when I asked for the Duty Manager I was invariably let through !
I would have no objection to purchasing a platform ticket (at 1d ?  ) - but I know at least one of my local TOCs^▸ (Train Operating Company) (SWT^▸ (South West Trains)) had told their staff not to sell them. Didn't that break the rules about ticket sales ? Another TOC (FGW^▸ (First Great Western)) thought I was bonkers when I asked if I could buy a  platform ticket - at an "open" station ! When I explained that I didn't actually want one, I just wanted to know if they would sell me one, they said they could.

A platform ticket is not a ticket - not in the sense used in the RSP TSA^▸ (Ticketing and Settlement Agreement.), anyway. The definition therein says:

“Ticket” means a document which evidences the Purchase of a Fare, an Excess Fare or an Upgrade or certain types of Reservation.

The rules about ticket sales apply to tickets in that sense, conferring a right to travel. A platform ticket would be some kind of barrier pass, a local matter for the station operator (at least in principle).

[paul7575]

Not much of a trainspotter if he doesn’t realise that a “railcard” is the thing you use to get a discount off a fare.   

What he really wants is some sort of “photo”, “ID”, or “membership” card, but please not a railcard...

Paul

[Bmblbzzz]

Choose trains
Choose a ticket
Choose a railcard
Choose a discount

[onthecushions]

There's always the Ian Allan Loco-spotters club that NR^» (Network Rail - home page) could revive, complete with badge (in six regional colours), membership card and solemn undertaking to obey this rule:

 Members of the club will not in any way interfere with railway working or material, nor be a nuisance or hindrance to their staff, nor, above all, trespass on railway property.

You needed a 1/3d postal order and SAE with 41/2d stamp.

How much have we lost.

OTC

[grahame]

There's always the Ian Allan Loco-spotters club that NR^» (Network Rail - home page) could revive, complete with badge (in six regional colours), membership card and solemn undertaking to obey this rule:

 Members of the club will not in any way interfere with railway working or material, nor be a nuisance or hindrance to their staff, nor, above all, trespass on railway property.

You needed a 1/3d postal order and SAE with 41/2d stamp.

How much have we lost.

OTC

The Rail Rider's Club - https://www.railriders.club/rail-riders-benefits - is back.  But the point of the rail"card" was / is for train spotters who station themselves at - err - a station and do not ride.   

The new "Rail Riders" is for the John Cleese of this world, where the Ian Allan club was for the Ronnie Barkers.  There's probably a club for the Ronnie Corbetts to stand on the street corner and watch the buses go by.

[stuving]

How much have we lost.

OTC

Yes - it's called the past. It does that all the time.

[grahame]

A new group just started on FaceBook

https://www.facebook.com/groups/1182062955503754/permalink/1182068055503244/

RIGHTS FOR RAIL ENTHUSIASTS

I have started this group because of on going issues at Swindon GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway) station about being allowed on to the platforms to photo and spot trains (both before COVID19 and after)

For me and other men and a few ladies going to your local station to see the trains is all some of them have to do in their senior years ,for me it is good for my well being and my mental heath plus a social event,

This should be taken into account by the train companies when deciding the rules.

Swindon had a manager who disliked rail enthusiasts;but she has now gone but things have not changed a great deal

Of course the barriers are there to stop fraudulent travel but there are cameras all over if they want to keep an eye on us and if you break the rules you will be banned

GWR Have a heart please !!!

[Rhydgaled]

The number of rail enthusiasts out to see the daily Class 80x Azumas^▸ (Brand name for Class 80x trains on LNER) at 0540 from Edinburgh Waverley and 1000 from London King's Cross really isn't a cause for concern.

Has the northbound service had its name reinstated then? The last time I looked (some time ago now) only the 05:40 Edinburgh to London was marked as The Flying Scotsman on the timetable.

Lateral thinking - existing railcards to be "smart" and include a platform ticket in their benefits - swipe in and out at gates.  And a new railcard for those who don't othewise qualify - perhaps a slightly higher price than the normal ones - with the platform ticket / card withdrawn on misuse such as on travelling with a railcard but no ticket.

Much better idea than having to pay for a platform ticket and useful for other things too.

Any person has a right to access a station (except in emergency - terror/UXB/accident/etc).

Then why are ticket barriers allowed? They imply that the only persons who have a right to access the platform are rail staff and passengers with a valid ticket.