GWR - 3 day seasons under consideration

[whole diary]

[grahame]

From iNews

Three-days-a-week season tickets are being considered by a railway firm to entice workers back into the office part-time, it has been reported.

The move aims to encourage workers living in London’s commuter belt back into the capital for part of the working week, after months of work-from-home arrangements.

Boris Johnson has urged companies to consider how to bring workers back into the office from August, and the Prime Minister is thought to be concerned about the effect working from home is having on city centre economies across the country.

Three days a week’ rail season ticket considered in bid to lure commuters back to office part-time
Rail bosses hope to lure commuters back to the office for a few days a week without paying for a full season ticket

Great Western Railway, which runs from London to hubs such as Oxford, Bath, and Reading, is considering a ticket that will allow people to travel three days out of seven – as many businesses are thought to be considering ways to bring workers back to the office for only part of the working week,

Part-time commuting

Traditional season tickets, valid for journeys seven days a week, can provide significant savings for regular commuters, but are not usually viable for workers who travel only a few days each week as the cost can be greater than simply buying regular tickets.

A spokesperson for the company told The Sunday Times: “Our research suggests commuters will travel, on average, into work three days a week, rather than the current five.”

I think I recall these already for some Cornwall commutes?

[IndustryInsider]

Yes, it's a good way forward.  Perhaps they should become part of the general fares structure across the country?

[old original]

"Part time season tickets" have been available for quite a few years on some journeys in the West. They are valid for the same three weekdays and Sats & Suns and one end of the journey has/had to be at a gated station.

[grahame]

Example Par to Plymouth.   
Looked up at BRFares ...  http://www.brfares.com/#!fares?orig=PAR&dest=PLY^» (Plymouth - next trains)
Either there is a web site funny or the conditions look designed to confuse even the staff

Mon, Tue, Wed
Outward:    VALID BETWEEN 0830-1600 INC AND FROM 1830 M-F.
Return:    NOT VALID BETWEEN 1601-1829 INC MON-FRI.

Mon, Tue, Fri
Outward:    NOT VALID BEFORE 0929HRS MONDAY-FRIDAY
Return:    ANY TRAIN SAME DAY

Mon, Wed, Thur
Outward:    VALID ON DATE&TRAIN SHOWN ONLY.LMTD CHNGE.NO RFND.
Return:    Return

Tue, Wed, Thur
Outward:    VALID BETWEEN 0830-1600 INC AND FROM 1800 M-F.
Return:    NOT VALID BETWEEN 1601-1759 INC MON-FRI.

"Part time season tickets" have been available for quite a few years on some journeys in the West. They are valid for the same three weekdays and Sats & Suns and one end of the journey has/had to be at a gated station.

Noting that "gated station" rule and indeed the tickets are not offered Par to Devonport.  The way you write, old original, suggests that journeys on these tickets have to be include a gated station (you say end of JOURNEY and not end of VALIDITY) - does that mean that if I bourght a Par to Plymouth one, I would not be allowed to leave the train from Par at Devonport, as neither have gates?  If so, that's a restriction I'm not used to on season tickets which I've always thought to be (and used) for intermediate journeys too. [Added - just looked at National Rail Condits ... which suggest that intermediate journeys with both ends ungated are allowed]

NRCoT

16.3. Generally, you may start, or break and resume, a journey (in either direction in the case of a return Ticket) at any intermediate station, as long as the Ticket you hold is valid for the trains you want to use. However, this may not be the case with some through services that take an indirect route. You may also end your journey (in either direction in the case of a return Ticket) before the destination shown on the Ticket.

36.2. A Season Ticket gives you the right to unlimited travel on train services between speci c stations or within specific geographic zones during the period up to and including the Season Ticket’s expiry date. This includes the right to start, break or resume your journey, as described in Condition 16.3. It may only be used by the person to whom, or on whose behalf, it was issued.

[didcotdean]

Carnet tickets might be more convenient as there is no requirement then to stick to specific days of the week, so long as they don't require the user to write in a date into a small box on a cardboard ticket with a pen and risk being accused of altering it. Sell them in units of single trips, eg 10, 20, 50, 100, with the larger ones having a longer period to use than the smaller ones. Or is the e-ticketing / ITSO system not capable of doing this, even on a limited set of stations?

[old original]

Grahame.... No, nothing wrong with getting off short of destination.  In my time we had someone who wanted one between Penzance & Redruth and was issued one through to Truro. Also there was a case of someone having one from St Austell to Truro and Truro to Falmouth, very rarely came through gates at Truro, not a problem.

Didcotdean... We also have Carnet tix down here, trouble is not particularly good value for money. 10 tix for the price of 9.

A word of caution....  this info comes from my dodgy memory, having been out of the loop (and free!) for 9 months.

[didcotdean]

Maybe for Carnet tickets to be deeper discounted they would have to be sold in the larger packages, and can be confined to one person's use as the season is.

[old original]

Graham..

Looking at those weird restrictions...  up to last October there was nothing like that. P/T seasons were just like ordinary ones. No time restrictions, and they were refundable (fares for days used deducted (SDR OR 7DS) and an admin fee.)

This might have changed in the interim.

[Richard Fairhurst]

Possibly a screw-up where the validities for one (rare) ticket type are mistakenly applied to another? I've seen that happen before.

[stuving]

Possibly a screw-up where the validities for one (rare) ticket type are mistakenly applied to another? I've seen that happen before.

Yes, it's a screw-up, but a worse one than that. The restriction codes that have been defined for these ticket types (NH, NW, NT, NM) already exist for other ticket types. As the restrictions have not been redefined, they are - well, wrong!

NH: "OFF-PEAK DAY" used for  MO TU WE &WKND
Restricted Days:

Mondays to Fridays

Outward Travel

Not valid on trains timed to depart after 04:29 and before 08:30 or after 16:00 and before 18:30.

The restriction after 16:00 and before 18:30 includes any connecting train departing during this period (or re-commencing your journey following a break of journey) within the following areas:

    Transport for Greater Manchester area plus Alderley Edge, Birchwood, Burscough Bridge, Disley, Handforth, Hoscar, New Mills Central, New Mills Newtown, Padgate, Parbold, Styal, Warrington Bank Quay, Warrington Central and Wilmslow;
    Travel South Yorkshire area plus, Darton, Denby Dale, Moorthorpe and South Elmsall;
    West Yorkshire Metro area plus Cononley, Harrogate,  Hornbeam Park, Knaresborough, Pannal, Skipton, Starbeck and Weeton.

Valid trains can also be checked using the journey planner at www.nationalrail.co.uk 

Further information including maps of the restricted areas can be found on the Northern website.

 
Return Travel

Not valid on trains timed to depart after 04:29 and before 08:30 or after 16:00 and before 18:30.

The restriction after 16:00 and before 18:30 includes any connecting train departing during this period (or re-commencing your journey following a break of journey) within the following areas:

    Transport for Greater Manchester area plus Alderley Edge, Birchwood, Burscough Bridge, Disley,  Dove Holes, Handforth, Hoscar, New Mills Central, New Mills Newtown, Padgate, Parbold, Styal, Warrington Bank Quay, Warrington Central, and Wilmslow;
    Travel South Yorkshire area plus, Darton, Denby Dale, Moorthorpe and South Elmsall;
    West Yorkshire Metro area plus Cononley, Harrogate,  Hornbeam Park, Knaresborough, Pannal, Skipton, Starbeck and Weeton.

Valid trains can also be checked using the journey planner at www.nationalrail.co.uk 

Further information including maps of the restricted areas can be found on the Northern website. 

NW:  "NORTHERN DUO" used for MO TU TH or MO TU FR &WKND
Restricted Days:

Mondays-Fridays

Outward Travel & Return Travel
Not valid on any train timed to depart Mondays to Fridays after 04:29 and before 09:30

NT:  "NTH ADVANCE" used fpr MO WE TH or MO WE FR or MO TH FR &WKND
Outward Journey
Summary:   VALID ON DATE&TRAIN SHOWN ONLY.LMTD CHNGE.NO RFND.
 
Return Journey
Summary:   Return

NM: "OFF-PEAK DAY" used for TU WE TH or TU WE FR or TU TH FR or WE TH FR &WKND
Restricted Days:

Mondays to Fridays

Outward Travel

Not valid on trains timed to depart after 04:29 and before 08:30 or after 16:00 and before 18:00.

The restriction after 16:00 and before 18:00 includes any connecting train departing during this period (or re-commencing your journey following a break of journey) within the following areas:

    Transport for Greater Manchester area plus Alderley Edge, Birchwood, Burscough Bridge, Disley, Handforth, Hoscar, New Mills Central, New Mills Newtown, Padgate, Parbold, Styal, Warrington Bank Quay, Warrington Central, and Wilmslow;
    Travel South Yorkshire area plus, Darton, Denby Dale, Moorthorpe and South Elmsall;
    West Yorkshire Metro area plus Cononley, Harrogate,  Hornbeam Park, Knaresborough, Pannal, Skipton, Starbeck and Weeton.

Valid trains can also be checked using the journey planner at www.nationalrail.co.uk 

Further information including maps of the restricted areas can be found on the Northern website.

 
Return Travel

Not valid on trains timed to depart after 04:29 and before 08:30 or after 16:00 and before 18:00.

The restriction after 16:00 and before 18:00 includes any connecting train departing during this period (or re-commencing your journey following a break of journey) within the following areas:

    Transport for Greater Manchester area plus Alderley Edge, Birchwood, Burscough Bridge, Disley,  Dove Holes, Handforth, Hoscar, New Mills Central, New Mills Newtown, Padgate, Parbold, Styal, Warrington Bank Quay, Warrington Central, and Wilmslow;
    Travel South Yorkshire area plus, Darton, Denby Dale, Moorthorpe and South Elmsall;
    West Yorkshire Metro area plus Cononley, Harrogate,  Hornbeam Park, Knaresborough, Pannal, Skipton, Starbeck and Weeton.

Valid trains can also be checked using the journey planner at www.nationalrail.co.uk 

Further information including maps of the restricted areas can be found on the Northern website.

It looks as if NH and NM are the same, but for some reason both exist. I've not looked to see if the unpublished restrictions are the same - though obviously they are wrong too.

[Sixty3Closure]

3 from 5 isn't quite enough to tempt me back into the office once that becomes an option.

Judging by how the trains use to be on a Friday many people work from home at least one day a week on a regular basis and I think where people have a choice they will probably want to WFH^▸ (Working From Home) more. I know for my team its been a revelation - not for us but for some senior manages who always insisted we had to be more often than we really needed.

The Sunday Times article also mentions a 12 days a month option which would be a bit more attractive for me. While its only slightly fewer days it just offers more flexibility.

Ideally though I'd be looking at 8 days a month.

[TaplowGreen]

Why not just roll out Oyster^▸ (Smartcard system used by passengers on Transport for London services) nationwide?

Automatically gives you the cheapest fare...........ah, that's why the TOC^▸ (Train Operating Company)'s wouldn't want it!

[Robin Summerhill]

Why not just roll out Oyster^▸ (Smartcard system used by passengers on Transport for London services) nationwide?

Automatically gives you the cheapest fare...........ah, that's why the TOC^▸ (Train Operating Company)'s wouldn't want it!

You cynic you 

[IndustryInsider]

Why not just roll out Oyster^▸ (Smartcard system used by passengers on Transport for London services) nationwide?

Automatically gives you the cheapest fare...........ah, that's why the TOC^▸ (Train Operating Company)'s wouldn't want it!

It can actually be quite a nice little earner.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-50304437

[old original]

Possibly a screw-up where the validities for one (rare) ticket type are mistakenly applied to another? I've seen that happen before.

Yes, it's a screw-up, but a worse one than that. The restriction codes that have been defined for these ticket types (NH, NW, NT, NM) already exist for other ticket types. As the restrictions have not been redefined, they are - well, wrong!



It looks as if NH and NM are the same, but for some reason both exist. I've not looked to see if the unpublished restrictions are the same - though obviously they are wrong too.

(I've just cut your quite down to save a bit of space)

I suspect that this all comes down to a problem that was created when P/T seasons came into existence.
There wasn't enough space in the fares database for all the new ticket types that would have been required, so in effect as a ticket TYPE within the fares structure,  P/T seasons don't actually exist.
The days of validity are in fact a routeing.

Perhaps this should be sorted before they're rolled out across the board