Boris Johnson: TfL driverless trains 'should be funding condition' - BBC

[whole diary]

[grahame]

From the BBC^» (British Broadcasting Corporation - home page)

Allowing driverless trains should be a condition of any future funding of Transport for London (TfL^» (Transport for London - about)), Prime Minister Boris Johnson has said.

In May, TfL secured £1.6bn in emergency funding to keep Tube and bus services running until September.
There are currently no driverless trains on the London Underground.

Train drivers' union Aslef dismissed Mr Johnston's call saying: “As always, Boris Johnson is talking nonsense about driverless trains."

"Slashing government funding to TfL means that they cannot afford the signalling upgrade and other technology that would be needed for driverless trains," a spokesman said.

[CyclingSid]

Like driverless government?

[GBM]

Cue the 'abolish the unions' cry.  Pointless having unions as they only support their members?
It's always been a battle between a Tory government vs Union; nothing unexpected.

[Noggin]

Boris is trolling the Mayor and the unions.

TfL^» (Transport for London - about) needs the money. There's little/no chance it means driverless trains for many years, but if he gives in, he's sold the drivers out, and bang go a few more votes for Labour. If TfL go bust, then he's demonstrated Labour can't be trusted to run things.
 

[Bmblbzzz]

Are we talking overground only? I thought trains on some TfL^» (Transport for London - about) underground lines had long been effectively driverless; they have a driver sitting in the cab because it's thought to be reassuring to the public, and presumably also to respond to emergencies and queries, but the train driving is automatic.

[IndustryInsider]

They are still technically driven as the driver controls the doors and can override the computer and take full control if needed.

[Gordon the Blue Engine]

There’s the Docklands Light Railway of course, which is a driverless, automated railway system including several different overlapping routes including flat junctions etc. 

So I think it’s reasonable to explore this concept elsewhere within TfL^» (Transport for London - about). 

[Bmblbzzz]

Fully automated road vehicles without so much as a steering wheel are just around the corner, according to the motor industry; the actual timescale might be more akin to that for cold fusion. Nevertheless, in the more controlled environment of rail, this should be easier to deliver, so it would be foolish for operators, manufacturers and regulators not to be considering it. In fact, we know from these august pages that the wider industry has already started driverless operation; not only DLR^▸ (Docklands Light Railway) but there's a link somewhere to an Australian freight line operating driverless. At some point, the technology, economics and public acceptance are all going to line up, and it might even be within a lifetime.

However, I'm extremely suspicious of political insistence on it, especially right now. Give the rail industry encouragement, a regulatory framework and funds if needed (I'm sure they will be) to explore it and it will happen in time. And of all the things that could need doing now on TfL^» (Transport for London - about) or the wider network, this would be a very low priority.

[Electric train]

They are still technically driven as the driver controls the doors and can override the computer and take full control if needed.

From the info I can remember for the TLP Core ATO^▸ (Automatic Train Operation) system the driver gives the ATO system the close door and proceed instruction by pressing 2 buttons on the desk.  The ATO closes the doors and the drive releases the buttons, there is an emergency stop.

The train is then controlled by the ATO which stops the train in the platform and opens the doors.

The driver can take over when required, to get the 24 TPH^▸ (trains per hour) in the TLP core a human cannot respond quick enough to have that density of service we humans are too cautious.

I cannot imagine the Tube system be currently that different.

The difference on the DLR^▸ (Docklands Light Railway) is the Train Captain can close the doors from any of the doors on the train, and is available to drive if required.

I think we the travelling public will always want a staff presence on a train for the foreseeable future

[patch38]

I looked up the TLA^▸ (three letter acronym) for TLP but it seems to be MIA. Do please enlighten us. 

[TaplowGreen]

They are still technically driven as the driver controls the doors and can override the computer and take full control if needed.

£55,000 a year to "technically" drive a train by opening & closing the doors?

Where do I sign up? 🙄

[eightonedee]

Having used the Skytrain in Vancouver for a week two years ago that seemed to work very well with driverless trains.

I think other forum members are familiar with the system too. What do they think  ?

[stuving]

Having used the Skytrain in Vancouver for a week two years ago that seemed to work very well with driverless trains.

I think other forum members are familiar with the system too. What do they think  ?

That was the original Seltrac implementation, and later versions of it are already running the Jubliee and Northern lines, and will soon also run all the sub-surface lines.  So what does the driver do? I'm not sure - but not drive the train, antway.

[IndustryInsider]

£55,000 a year to "technically" drive a train by opening & closing the doors?

Where do I sign up? 🙄

This is the best place to start looking: https://tfl.gov.uk/corporate/careers/

[paul7575]

I don’t think anyone is suggesting full “driverless” ie with no one in the cab for any TfL^» (Transport for London - about) route, underground, overground or anywhere on national rail.

But taking the underground routes, they’re all gradually being resignalled to attended automatic operation, which was fitted on the Victoria Line from new, let’s not forget.

I think “unattended” would need a more tightly controlled access to the track, with more platform edge doors.  But look at the current criticism of DLR^▸ (Docklands Light Railway) for not having someone looking out the front...

I’d agree this is more political spin than substance.

Paul