Wrexham & Shropshire launch date

[whole diary]

[JayMac]

And the 1st class supplement payable on the train to / from Banbury / Leamington will be ^15 single.

Also, you'll be able to use Network CVards / GoldCards to / from Banbury on WSMR^▸ (Wrexham, Shropshire and Marylebone Railway)....

One wonders how this compares with the 1st class Anytime Day fares from Banbury/Leamington to London. Chiltern are putting these up by 46% from January. So as soon as Banbury and Leamington get a 1st class direct to London service, the TOC^▸ (Train Operating Company) responsible for setting the fare hike it massively. And this from a TOC that doesn't even have 1st class on it's own services.

[ChrisB]

Hmmm, I think you need to go and do your homework - the 1st Class fare from Banbury to London Terminals is set by FGW^▸ (First Great Western).

How much is the new fare?

Looking up return 1st class fares for 5 December & 5 January, I can only find an ^89 fare - and that's for both dates, before & after the fare rises!

[ChrisB]

Oh, the 1st class fares aren't *Day* fares either it seems, they are valid a month.

So, with the peak fare of ^49.50 plus ^30 in supplements, thiscompares  favourably with the ^89 1st class Anytime return: ^10 cheaper!

And of course, on off-peak, or even super off-peak! Standard fares, the savings are huge! And even bigger with Network or Gold Card discounted Standard fares (adding on the  supplements)....

I wonder whether the take-up on the supplement will not leave sufficient room from WSMR^▸ (Wrexham, Shropshire and Marylebone Railway) passengers going north of Birmingham?.....

[Ollie]

Sorry Chris but according to a staff website done by ATOC^» (Association of Train Operating Companies See - here) (The Manual) the Banbury to London fare is indeed priced by Chiltern

Current price: First Day Return :: ^89
New price: First Day Return :: ^130

[inspector_blakey]

Btline, where are you...?! 

We need somebody to give Chiltern's disgusting, appalling fare increases the same treatment that FGW^▸ (First Great Western)'s had...

Oh, and put in lots of these 

[devon_metro]

Btline, where are you...?! 

We need somebody to give Chiltern's disgusting, appalling fare increases the same treatment that FGW^▸ (First Great Western)'s had...

Oh, and put in lots of these 

So long as the train calls at no intermediate stations I can't see any problems

[JayMac]

Hmmm, I think you need to go and do your homework - the 1st Class fare from Banbury to London Terminals is set by FGW^▸ (First Great Western).

How much is the new fare?

Looking up return 1st class fares for 5 December & 5 January, I can only find an ^89 fare - and that's for both dates, before & after the fare rises!

I picked up the information from The Fact Compiler's Railway Eye blog.

And as other's have pointed out, the fare from Banbury is set by Chiltern, (from Leamington there is a route Banbury fare set by Chiltern, and an Any Permitted set by Virgin). I did go and do my homework and checked the blog information elsewhere before posting here.

And the fare you pay is the current fare regardless of your date of travel. Always worth remembering if you intend to purchase tickets for travel on a date after a price increase.

[inspector_blakey]

So... <scratches head> ...assuming I've got this right:

a. Chiltern sets the first class Banbury to London fare;
b. Chiltern got rid of first class on its services some years ago;
c. Therefore, no-one in their right mind would use anything other than XC^▸ (Cross Country Trains (franchise)) and/or FGW^▸ (First Great Western) to make that first class journey. From a very quick check on NRES^▸ (National Rail Enquiry Service) it looks like the journey to PAD^» (Paddington (London) - next trains) is only very slightly longer than the direct journey to MYB^▸ (London (Marylebone)).

Does Chiltern still get a share of the revenue for those tickets from ORCATS^▸ (Operational Research Computerised Allocation of Tickets to Services)? Does anyone ever buy them? The cynic in me was wondering if it was some kind of under-hand tactic to get people to travel on Chiltern services rather than FGW. However, assuming the standard and first class tickets are both inter-available I can't see how that makes any sense.

My brain aches.

And the fare you pay is the current fare regardless of your date of travel. Always worth remembering if you intend to purchase tickets for travel on a date after a price increase.

I'm not sure that's entirely correct. I also thought that it was the case, and posted to that effect on here a while ago (probably around the time of the annual fares rise fuss last year). I was corrected by some rail staff who pointed out that at some arbitrary date machines would be updated with the new fares, resulting in any advance-dated tickets being issued at the raised price from then on.

[super tm]

And the fare you pay is the current fare regardless of your date of travel. Always worth remembering if you intend to purchase tickets for travel on a date after a price increase.

I'm not sure that's entirely correct. I also thought that it was the case, and posted to that effect on here a while ago (probably around the time of the annual fares rise fuss last year). I was corrected by some rail staff who pointed out that at some arbitrary date machines would be updated with the new fares, resulting in any advance-dated tickets being issued at the raised price from then on.
[/quote]

Yes that is right.  With the old ticket machines they did not have enough memory to hold two different fare rates so when the price increased if you bought a ticket in advance they old price would be applied.  The new machines dont do this and when they load the new data the higher price will be charged for advance purchased tickets.  I believe the new prices were loaded in on Monday 30th November so advance purchase tickets for travel after 2nd January will now be at the higher rate.

[JayMac]

Yes that is right.  With the old ticket machines they did not have enough memory to hold two different fare rates so when the price increased if you bought a ticket in advance they old price would be applied.  The new machines dont do this and when they load the new data the higher price will be charged for advance purchased tickets.  I believe the new prices were loaded in on Monday 30th November so advance purchase tickets for travel after 2nd January will now be at the higher rate.

So what you are saying is that if I go to a ticket office and buy my 1st class Anytime Day Return Banbury to London Terminals for travel on, say, 11th February 2010 I'll pay the Jan 2010 increased fare of ^130? Or are you of the opinion that increased prices only apply to Advance Purchase tickets rather than any ticket bought in advance? I've just checked with a few online retailers and as of today I can still get the Banbury to London Terminals 1st class Anytime Day Return fare at ^89 for 11/02/2010. It would be a little perverse (though not unexpected) if there was such a huge price differential for an online ticket purchase versus one bought at a station, excepting online promotions of which there are none in this case.

There will no doubt be some increases in unregulated ADV fares from Jan, but, as yet there appears to be no difference in fares offered for travel two weeks hence or six weeks hence. I've only checked a small sample, but I see no evidence of Jan fares increases being offered for sale online yet.

And blakey....my brains aching too.

[paul7575]

Yes that is right.  With the old ticket machines they did not have enough memory to hold two different fare rates so when the price increased if you bought a ticket in advance they old price would be applied.  The new machines dont do this and when they load the new data the higher price will be charged for advance purchased tickets.  I believe the new prices were loaded in on Monday 30th November so advance purchase tickets for travel after 2nd January will now be at the higher rate.

I agree with this in principle, but not the timescale. The last few years it has been just about 3 weeks beforehand when the new fares have gone live - last year it was around the 7th or 8th of Dec. They haven't changed yet, I've been checking for the major upheaval in London fares if you don't use Oyster^▸ (Smartcard system used by passengers on Transport for London services) PAYG^▸ (Pay as you go). I'd estimate that the upload could happen this coming Monday?

Edit: 30th Nov could well be the date NFM05 data became available from 'The Manual' - AIUI^▸ (as I understand it) it isn't uploaded to the customer facing systems at the same time.

Paul

[ChrisB]

I think that another check might find the new fares being charged now for post Jan 2 travel.....

Oh, and Chiltern's comments about the 1st class fare rise?.....

"I can confirm that we set the first class fare from Banbury and it is increasing, but we are still offering the supplement as previously discussed.

As you know, at present there aren't many direct services with first class but these will increase when the W&S^▸ (Wrexham and Shropshire (Open Access Operator)) services have open calls. We recognise the potential popularity of the first class accommodation, but are also concerned that we don't want to have over crowding. I believe you voiced the same concerns as well. Therefore, we have increased the first class fare to de-incentivise the season ticket, but will be offering the on board supplement to allow us to offer a value for money product whilst managing the uptake. As you pointed out earlier, there is no point in having passengers standing in first class!

There is a view that as time goes on we will better understand the demand for W&S services (and Chiltern for that matter) post recession, which as you can imagine is only guess work at this point until we see how the market develops. However, we have taken steps to allow us to secure future rolling stock to meet future demand be it standard, or first class."

[Mookiemoo]

Therefore, we have increased the first class fare to de-incentivise the season ticket,

Does that mean they do not want first class sason ticket holders?

[John R]

Almost certainly yes. Given the service is primarily aimed at travellers to the WM and beyond, if 1st class was filled with season ticket holders, it would completely devalue the proposition for the main target market (coming out of London in the evening), if they couldn't get a seat going home.  The problem doesn't arise on the inward journey because the target market are already sitting comfortably by the Leamington and Banbury calls.

[Mookiemoo]

Almost certainly yes. Given the service is primarily aimed at travellers to the WM and beyond, if 1st class was filled with season ticket holders, it would completely devalue the proposition for the main target market (coming out of London in the evening), if they couldn't get a seat going home.  The problem doesn't arise on the inward journey because the target market are already sitting comfortably by the Leamington and Banbury calls.

How about the (maybe rare) person who if lived in shrewsbury (I'm 30 miles south) WOULD use them in both directions