Okehampton-Tavistock. Discussion on reopening and potential use as a diversionary route

[whole diary]

[Chris from Nailsea]

With my thanks to the most recent few posters here, I've now taken the opportunity to revise this topic heading to more accurately reflect what we are trying to achieve here. 

[swrural]

The key issue here is Tavistock viaduct.  The last time I looked, there is a bungalow built across the formation, called 'Beeches', on the Callington Road to the west of the town and I believe, is the reason why the proposed line to Plymouth will finish just short of the missing bridge which crossed the Callington Road.  (See GE and SV).  Using the same software, look to the east of the central viaduct in Tavistock and you will see a line of houses that were allowed to be built just to the west of the old station, which itself is still intact.  So that's about 5 or more compulsory purchases that have to be made.  After that to the east, severing the West Devon District Council offices should be less of a problem and there is some cosmetic land infill near an old people's home that could be got rid of.  After that, there may be one or two garden extensions on the moor by the people who bought the old stations as houses (but I noted on my own recce that they are railway enthusiasts).

My feeling is that the District council is not the kind that would promote reinstatement of the railway; if it were different, they would not have built their own scrappy offices over it, but I would be delighted to learn otherwise. 

[Plymboi]

The key issue here is Tavistock viaduct.  The last time I looked, there is a bungalow built across the formation, called 'Beeches', on the Callington Road to the west of the town and I believe, is the reason why the proposed line to Plymouth will finish just short of the missing bridge which crossed the Callington Road.  (See GE and SV).  Using the same software, look to the east of the central viaduct in Tavistock and you will see a line of houses that were allowed to be built just to the west of the old station, which itself is still intact.  So that's about 5 or more compulsory purchases that have to be made.  After that to the east, severing the West Devon District Council offices should be less of a problem and there is some cosmetic land infill near an old people's home that could be got rid of.  After that, there may be one or two garden extensions on the moor by the people who bought the old stations as houses (but I noted on my own recce that they are railway enthusiasts).

My feeling is that the District council is not the kind that would promote reinstatement of the railway; if it were different, they would not have built their own scrappy offices over it, but I would be delighted to learn otherwise. 

West Devon council are fully in support of the reinstatement, in fact they are a main driver of the proposals they endorsed a leaflet in February this year outlining the project and about the public enquiry!

http://www.devon.gov.uk/120204_tavistock_railway_leaflet_8_gm.pdf

[swrural]

The key issue here is Tavistock viaduct.  The last time I looked, there is a bungalow built across the formation, called 'Beeches', on the Callington Road to the west of the town and I believe, is the reason why the proposed line to Plymouth will finish just short of the missing bridge which crossed the Callington Road.  (See GE and SV).  Using the same software, look to the east of the central viaduct in Tavistock and you will see a line of houses that were allowed to be built just to the west of the old station, which itself is still intact.  So that's about 5 or more compulsory purchases that have to be made.  After that to the east, severing the West Devon District Council offices should be less of a problem and there is some cosmetic land infill near an old people's home that could be got rid of.  After that, there may be one or two garden extensions on the moor by the people who bought the old stations as houses (but I noted on my own recce that they are railway enthusiasts).

My feeling is that the District council is not the kind that would promote reinstatement of the railway; if it were different, they would not have built their own scrappy offices over it, but I would be delighted to learn otherwise. 

West Devon council are fully in support of the reinstatement, in fact they are a main driver of the proposals they endorsed a leaflet in February this year outlining the project and about the public enquiry!

http://www.devon.gov.uk/120204_tavistock_railway_leaflet_8_gm.pdf

With respect, I believe you are writing about a different project, as is the leaflet you quote.  Yes, that section south west of Tavistock to Bere Alston has indeed to be opened for the whole route from Plymouth to Exeter via Okehampton to be opened, but what I was writing about is the section between that end point and Meldon Quarry which encounters the difficulties, about which I posted.

If you can find a WDDC statement that endorses the changes and CPOs, I will be very pleasantly surprised, unlike the owners of those properties that would require CPO and demolition, I suspect.  In fact the route protection would have to be written into the Local Plan and i don't think it is.  I don't see how it could be, without an Inquiry Inspector first dealing with the 'difficulties'. 

[Umberleigh]

After a long period of inactivity, things are moving again on the Dartmoor Railway website:

http://www.dartmoor-railway-sa.org

Good news includes a return to steam for the Dartmoor Pony, and a forthcoming visit by a Bullied Pacific.

Also plenty of info and pics re the volunteers keeping the whole show on the road.

[trainbuff]

Not sure if this belongs in this area but the Dartmoor Railway has suspended all its services at Okehampton.

http://www.dartmoor-railway-sa.org/news

A similar thing is happening on the Weardale railway. See below and in attached link.



ED ELLIS, MANAGING DIRECTOR OF WEARDALE RAILWAYS CIC^▸ (Community Interest Company ) ANNOUNCES THE PLANS FOR SERVICES IN 2013

^We have waited to announce the plans for the Weardale Railway for 2013 until we had time to fully analyse last years results and then  use that information to develop our plans for the future. The key element of the 2012 operations was the successful running of the first ever Polar Express operation in the UK^▸ (United Kingdom). Iowa Pacific now operates the Polar Express on  a total of 7 railways here in the UK and in the USA. In its first  year the Weardale Railway Polar Express train carried over 37,000 passengers, which is more than were carried on any of the US railways we operate and was well ahead of our expectations.

The Polar Express and the coal trains  from Wolsingham both made a substantial financial contribution, but when taking into account the Heritage train operation and other costs, the Weardale Railway made a loss in 2012, albeit at a lower level than in 2011 and earlier years. 

Since it acquired a majority stake in the Railway, Iowa Pacific^s  UK Subsidiary British American Railway Services has made a substantial financial investment in the Weardale Railway. This investment funded the connection to the main rail network and the maintenance and expansion of the infrastructure at Wolsingham and Bishop Auckland. It has now become time to consolidate the railway^s financial position by concentrating on activities that will make a positive contribution to the bottom line and help to pay off the substantial investment loans which have been made. 

Our plans for 2013 will focus on three main operational elements. First, the continued operation of the freight traffic. These trains usually operate 5 or 6 days per week carrying coal to power stations and steelworks further south. We are pleased that last year every train from and to the network was operated without incident despite the extreme weather events of 2012.

Secondly, we plan to operate the Polar Express again in 2013. Again here the full timetable was operated and extra trains were laid on to cope with demand. This was achieved only with the heroic and dedicated efforts of the staff, both full time and temporary, supplemented by the volunteers of the Weardale Railway Trust. With the experience gained in marketing and operating last year we are planning to make this years ^Polar^ an even better experience for passengers.

 Thirdly, we plan to run a service of ^Themed^ trains, concentrating on value added services such as Lunch, Afternoon Tea, and Evening  Dining trains utilising the Mk 2 coaches  and diesel haulage. At the moment we are finalising plans to operate over 100 of these trains, operating on approximately 75 days. We are targeting to start these services in May. 

With the withdrawal of the Weardale Railway Trust^s steam locomotive for overhaul this year and the need for restoration work on some of the Mk 1 Heritage coaches, we have concluded  that it will not be possible to run a financially viable Heritage service using hired in equipment. We will use 2013 as a year to consolidate and plan, jointly with the Trust, for services in 2014.

In the original 2012  timetable we scheduled passenger trains to run on 91 days. This year we envisage passenger trains running on over 110 days, including Polar Express, so this in no sense a retrenchment, it is a re-focusing  of our operations aiming to put the Railway on a firmer financial footing. 

All of this, together with the running of around 300 freight trains and the ongoing maintenance of the infrastructure, means that 2013 will be a busy year for our staff and volunteers  and I look forward to continuing the work of redevelopment of the Weardale Railway with Durham  County Council and the Weardale Railway Trust.^

                                  Ed Ellis : 15 March 2013 (Taken from http://www.weardale-railway.org.uk/)




It appears as if the US parent company wish to only run trains that are profitable. I guess fairly obviously as they are a business, but what impact will this have on the line. The Polar Express sounds like it did well and the Dining Services. What will happen to The Dartmoor Rover, The Railway itself and Meldon? Any thoughts?

[Chris from Nailsea]

Thanks for posting that update, trainbuff.

Purely in the interests of continuity, I've moved your post here and merged it with this ongoing discussion on the future of the Okehampton branch.

[6 OF 2 redundant adjunct of unimatrix 01]

Going back to the start when bars took over, it was made clear that the main priority was to establish new freight contracts and the maintanance side of the business (rms locotec), the heritage side was  not a priority infact initially I do not belive it was even a goal, I'm not going to speculate on the reasons but I will say I doubt this will alter the likelyhood of any potential mainline services which may be included in the future gw franchise

[Plymboi]

Beginning of the end for the okehampton branch? Odd moe wonder whats prompted them to suspend services.

[6 OF 2 redundant adjunct of unimatrix 01]

Beginning of the end for the okehampton branch? Odd moe wonder whats prompted them to suspend services.

How do you draw that conclusion? The profitable services have not been suspended, heritage is suspended pending clarification, if the number of passengers on the heritage services is not covering the running cost then in the long run it is better to stop and assess things, the main goal is and always has been to get main line services to Exeter reinstated, we will probably never know what the individual toc's bids had in mind for the withered arm if anything, and we now have a long wait to find out so i I doubt we will see anything running with passengers during the week to Exeter any time soon

To wrap up end of heritage operations .... I really hope not, end of the line as a whole I really doubt it

[RichardB]

Just looking at the DRSA website, I see they are running a service between Okehampton and Meldon tomorrow (Sunday 24).

http://www.dartmoor-railway-sa.org/news

Well worth going along, especially if it is something you haven't done before.

[Plymboi]

Is rolling stock the main reason why national rail services are not available on the okehampton line?

[6 OF 2 redundant adjunct of unimatrix 01]

No, although availability of rolling stock is an issue, it's more to do with the pathetic amount of red tape 'needed'

[swrural]

A few years ago I took a trip on the summer Sunday special.  It was terrifying, as the line side greenery, although presumably adequately cut back for the stone trains, was whipping against the class 143 windows (was it? -one of those bus things, anyway) and must have inflicted big scratch damage.  The windows were filthy anyway, so negating the whole point of the excursion.     My wife and I had another go a year ago and it was much better, but it came home to me that a fair amount of work would be required to resurrect it as a mainline diversionary route.   

[Umberleigh]

So who actually owns the 19 mile Dartmoor Railway?

In the last year we have been told that Aggregate Industries owns it, and has put the line up for sale:

http://www.aggregate.com/PageFiles/805/Property-sale-Meldon-Aug-2012.pdf

... but we are also told that BARS (subsidiary of Iowa Pacific Holdings) own the line, call the shots over the heritage operation, plan to introduce passenger services, freight, etc.

Anyone else confused?