Things that need to change: 'Beg buttons'

[whole diary]

[Red Squirrel]

When someone on foot or bicycle wishes to cross the road at a signal-controlled junction, they are often presented with a push-button to press. This seems reasonable: if no-one wants to cross, there's no need to stop the traffic.

Is it reasonable, though?

Firstly, they are built on the presumption that motor traffic has primacy. Motorists are not expected to get out and push a button, so why are pedestrians, cyclists and horse riders?

Secondly, a motorist approaching a set of signals can see whether they are red or green. I've not seen this formally stated anywhere, but I strongly suspect that modern pedestrian lights are deliberately angled so that you cannot see them until you are at the crossing point, and in any case unless someone has pressed the beg button they won't show a green signal even if it is safe to cross.

Finally, in many cities around the world beg buttons are being deliberately disabled (or 'automated') because they are seen as a 'high-contact surface', and therefore highly likely to spread the coronavirus.

Is it too much to hope that beg buttons will soon become a thing of the past?

[Oxonhutch]

Large black and white stripes with a pair of flashing yellow beacons seem to work quite well. No contact required - or desired.

[paul7575]

I’ve never heard of the term ‘beg button’, is that something you’ve nicknamed them yourself?

Paul

[Red Squirrel]

I’ve never heard of the term ‘beg button’, is that something you’ve nicknamed them yourself?

Paul

No - the term seems, like so many improvements to the English language, to have originated in the USA. If you follow the link in my OP^▸ (Original Poster / topic starter), you'll see it used there.

[Bmblbzzz]

I think I probably have heard the term 'beg button' before but it's certainly not part of my active vocabulary.

I hadn't heard of places deactivating the buttons, but it seems those in USA work in a different way from the ones here. In the UK^▸ (United Kingdom), at a junction there will – eventually – be a pedestrian green phase even if no one presses the button. It seems from that article that in the USA, there won't. That's more like the way standalone crossings work here; if you press the button, you get a green man phase, sometimes very quickly, sometimes not until there's no traffic anyway, but if no one presses it, no green man. So I'm not sure about getting rid of them altogether; it would have to be considered what happens instead and where.

Lastly, big ups to Calgary for (as reported in Squirrel's link) "closing six major roads to cars and opening them to people". 

[didcotdean]

The situation in the USA is very different from the UK^▸ (United Kingdom) for a number of reasons.

Firstly there are no jaywalking laws in Great Britain which are common in the USA. So it is perfectly legal to ignore the red man and cross not on a pedestrian cycle although only sensible if there is no traffic in the way of course. Two-thirds roughly of Americans support anti-jaywalking laws so they aren't going away.

A complete 'green man' phase is relatively rare in the USA. Pedestrian crossing a simple intersections is generally done with traffic having the green light on the other leg of the crossroad, and traffic giving way to crossing pedestrians to turn right.

Complicated junctions will often have multiple phases to allow various traffic moves without conflict. This leads to very long waits whether automated or not.

Relatively few dedicated pedestrian crossings not at crossroads.

The UK has its own problems though - such as many roundabouts now being too busy for pedestrian crossing at the legs to work.

[Red Squirrel]

...In the UK^▸ (United Kingdom), at a junction there will – eventually – be a pedestrian green phase even if no one presses the button.

Is that true, though?

Cycling round the ring road cycle path, it seems to me (it would be good if someone in the know could give a definitive answer) that you only get a 'green bike' signal if you hit the beg button. It also seems pretty clear that you don't get one until the next cycle of the signals, i.e. if you arrive just after the motor traffic has stopped you will see a 'red bike' signal and won't get a 'green bike' until the next cycle. Very frustrating, and very biased towards the kind of traffic we least want.

[CyclingSid]

I believe there used to be a jaywalking law in Scotland.

On the subject of possibly disabling crossing request buttons; they would need to make sure there are adequate road/path sensors for bikes and they worked. They tend to in Reading but seem not to when you cross the boundary into Wokingham. You also need more use of sensors, most traffic lights have them for cars but seem to be stuck in a timed sequence.

Also sensible programming of lights and their accompanying pedestrian/cycle lights. On my way to work there is a triangular junction (bottom of Watlington St for those who know the area) with car, cycle and pedestrian lights. The sensors work, if you arrive at the lights in the correct part of the sequence. Why don't the cycle/pedestrian lights automatically show green when the related car lights are red? Sensors for cyclists could still override the sequence if required.

For Daily Mail readers, one of the reasons cyclists go through red lights is because they are not set up sensibly and it is frustrating to sit there and watch air going through the lights. I am normally the lemon sat there waiting for them to change!

[grahame]

...In the UK^▸ (United Kingdom), at a junction there will – eventually – be a pedestrian green phase even if no one presses the button.

Is that true, though?

I think it varies - and I note the original says "at a junction".

... Very frustrating, and very biased towards the kind of traffic we least want.

Very true, too.   There are lights I know locally which - if they had a personality - you would feel they only grudgingly let pedestrians and cycles cross, eventually, when there's a break in motor cars.   Not so much giving pedestrians a balanced opportunity to cross - merely a safety indicator.

Interestingly, I think the light set I have in mind have a sensor to check that there's actually someone still waiting before they change.    It doesn't work very well - stand very still and the system thinks you've gone away, cancelling your request for  a pedestrian cycle when next there is no road traffic.

[didcotdean]

It is also possible to have an installation that detects waiting pedestrians obviating the need for a button to be pressed.

Since Puffin crossings detect both the speed of people crossing so as to extend the phase if necessary, and whether people have given up waiting & crossed when the road was already clear, they could become fully automatic by detecting the presence of people too.Although maybe a button should still be there as a fallback.

[Ralph Ayres]

A local Puffin crossing has a habit of cancelling the request after a minute or so even if someone is still waiting. Not sure if it detects movement, body heat or what, but it seems unreliable so fully automated changing would need to be rather better.

[Bmblbzzz]

...In the UK^▸ (United Kingdom), at a junction there will – eventually – be a pedestrian green phase even if no one presses the button.

Is that true, though?

Cycling round the ring road cycle path, it seems to me (it would be good if someone in the know could give a definitive answer) that you only get a 'green bike' signal if you hit the beg button. It also seems pretty clear that you don't get one until the next cycle of the signals, i.e. if you arrive just after the motor traffic has stopped you will see a 'red bike' signal and won't get a 'green bike' until the next cycle. Very frustrating, and very biased towards the kind of traffic we least want.

It's something I heard in a talk by a (hold your breath, this is really exciting) highways engineer in charge of pedestrian crossings for Bristol City Council. I'd note that most, if not all, of the ring road is in either S. Glos or BANES, so perhaps they have different policies or varying interpretations of the regulations.

He also said that there needs to be a delay between pressing the button and the lights going from green to amber regardless of traffic on the road, because if there wasn't, pedestrians would get used to being able to cross immediately.

[didcotdean]

A local Puffin crossing has a habit of cancelling the request after a minute or so even if someone is still waiting. Not sure if it detects movement, body heat or what, but it seems unreliable so fully automated changing would need to be rather better.

Then it was not set up correctly or has been knocked out of alignment and needs maintenance.

[grahame]

He also said that there needs to be a delay between pressing the button and the lights going from green to amber regardless of traffic on the road, because if there wasn't, pedestrians would get used to being able to cross immediately.

Was it his mouth he was talking through, or is that just a view based on the pedestrians of Bristol?

My most commonly used local crossing WILL change straight away if you push the button and there's no road traffic about - the very circumstance when, frankly, a controlled crossing with lights going red against traffic that absent is  verging on pointless.

The explanation I had heard of the delay was to avoid the lights having to change too often - to give the possibility for a whole batch of pedestrians to be crossed in a single cycle.

A local Puffin crossing has a habit of cancelling the request after a minute or so even if someone is still waiting. Not sure if it detects movement, body heat or what, but it seems unreliable so fully automated changing would need to be rather better.

Then it was not set up correctly or has been knocked out of alignment and needs maintenance.

Maybe that crossing is out of alignment or needs attention ... and if that's the case it's far from unique!   Reporting such problems (I have tried it) seems like talking to a black hole.

[stuving]

If you want a bit of factual basis for this, Siemens have a load of complete manuals you can download. I do mean complete - full installation and service manuals - because, rather oddly, I can't find a "user guide" to the set-up options. The documents are inside zip files, so I can't see a way to link to one alone - you'll have to go fetch yourself. I expect other makers offer similar products.

The zips are listed on this page, and the ST750 is the one for simple crossings (ST800, ST850, and ST950 look to be big junction controllers). Either the LV or ELV General hanbook is what you want, and the set-up options are on page 36 or 87 respectively.

The options are called "Fixed Vehicle Period" (or change on demand subject to minimum green time), "Vehicle Actuated" (but with minimum and maximum green time), "Vehicle Actuated with Pre-Timed Maximum (PTM)" (almost the same), or "Linked Operation" (an add-on to allow inputs from another junction). It goes on to include pedestrian and cycle detectors, and a delay on the pedestrian button.
 
I have got the idea from somewhere that Siemens' own preferred mode is the first one with no button delay, but councils keep demanding the delay because it's "fairer". But I may have imagined that. Certainly logic favours option 1 as stated.