Fancy a drink at The White Horse or The Three Plovers on your way home?

[whole diary]

[grahame]

From Ian Visits

It’s May 1949 and British Rail was showing off its latest idea to please the public – a travelling pub.

Not a buffet car or restaurant, but a full on pub on wheels, in a mock-tudor appearance, with fake brick walls on the outside, and even a pub sign on the door.

[old original]

Mock Tudor trolley anyone?

[eightf48544]

Weren't they SR^‡(resolve) Bullied? I think they were officially called Tavern Cars and were used on the Waterloo Exeter line.

[rogerpatenall]

Yes. There was always one on the 6pm ex Waterloo. My Dad loved them, but I disliked the lack of windows. Always packed as far as Salisbury, but empty thereafter. Sandwiches were freshly made to order and very tasty - although a poor substitute for 'dinner in the diner'.

I never remember seeing one in the consist of the morning up trains (usually the 6.30 or 7.30 off Exeter) - perhaps they travelled up later in the day, because it would have been a nightmare re marshalling those sets.

On a similar subject, but drifting the thread through at least 90⁰, my memory of the longest regular train through Castle Cary  was the Summer Friday evening down empty restaurant cars. These were fully staffed, but I never asked what sleeping arrangements were in place for the staff. Any one know more of that?

[eightf48544]

I've read about the Restaurant Car trians to the West Country. They were I believe dropped off at various places to be marshalled into UP Summer Saturday trains from places like Kingswear, Newquay, Penzance.

How and where the re marshalling was done and where the crew slept I don't know. But in those days the railway seemed to be able to perform such feats.

I've just been reading a book on Rails in Valleys which describes the rail services in the South Rail Valleys.
 
In particular the coal trade where one ship might required 12 1000 ton trains to fill. All of which had to arrive in time and be tipped in the quickest possible time to meet the sailing date, and that was only for one ship from one colliery. Just in time is not new.

Then there was the evening return excursions from Barry Island on a Sunday 30 plus tarins in 3 hours!

[broadgage]

I would pay good money to travel in a recreated Tavern Car. Perhaps on a heritage line. I cant see any such returning on the national network, where the emphasis is on downgrading or entirely removing catering, not on adding new facilities.

I can remember restaurant cars on services from Waterloo, though not the tavern cars. These days not one service from Waterloo has anything better than a trolley, and most don't get even that.

[bradshaw]

Back along two of us did a 7 day SR^‡(resolve) rover ticket and had lunch on the Bournemouth Belle, price then £5; a very enjoyable trip, Merchant hauled.

[grahame]

The economic problems with specialist carriages - some hinted at in comments above ...
... they are only really used for small parts of the day (drink at the "Hedgehog and Carrot" on your way into work on the 06:30?) and are awkward to diagram
... they carry fewer passengers per metre / yard of carriage
... they require a higher level of specialist staffing
and I wonder (briefly) how the 153 recreation carriages are going to work on the West Highland line; probably not too bad against those criteria; probably useful on all trains, and no extra staff needed (I don't think the plan to have travelling engineers to service bicycles during the journey lasted beyond midday on 1st April).

It's looking at loadings like this that have me realise just how fortunate we are on the Coffee Shop ... with a loading profile that would make any TOC^▸ (Train Operating Company) jealous ... from Easter 2019, and Easter 2020.   Figures are sessions per hour;  numbers down a little in 2020 over 2019 due to a reduced number of guests - but our drop in "casual" visitors pales into insignificance beside the railways drop in "casual" (optional travel) customers. 

[broadgage]

The economic problems with specialist carriages - some hinted at in comments above ...
... they are only really used for small parts of the day (drink at the "Hedgehog and Carrot" on your way into work on the 06:30?) and are awkward to diagram
... they carry fewer passengers per metre / yard of carriage
... they require a higher level of specialist staffing
and I wonder (briefly) how the 153 recreation carriages are going to work on the West Highland line; probably not too bad against those criteria; probably useful on all trains, and no extra staff needed (I don't think the plan to have travelling engineers to service bicycles during the journey lasted beyond midday on 1st April).

It's looking at loadings like this that have me realise just how fortunate we are on the Coffee Shop ... with a loading profile that would make any TOC^▸ (Train Operating Company) jealous ... from Easter 2019, and Easter 2020.   Figures are sessions per hour;  numbers down a little in 2020 over 2019 due to a reduced number of guests - but our drop in "casual" visitors pales into insignificance beside the railways drop in "casual" (optional travel) customers. 

As is well known, I am a fan of on train catering.
I doubt the accuracy of todays mantra about the little use made of such facilities  and the excessive costs.

The modern tendency is towards fixed formation multiple unit trains, IETs^▸ (Intercity Express Train) and the like. There is no real reason why a long fixed formation unit could not incorporate a proper buffet.
If reliably provided and offering a suitable choice of refreshment, such a facility would be well used in both rush hours.
Only a few diehards want alcoholic drink in the morning rush hour, but there is a demand for real coffee, bacon rolls, and related products in the morning peak, with alcohol and "pub snacks" being popular in the evening peak.
As regards the oft quoted space "wasted" by catering, I am not convinced.
A standard class IET vehicle has about 88 seats. It should be possible to design a new IET buffet car with a large central servery and longitudinal seating at each end with a total capacity of about 45.
At busy times, many customers would CHOOSE to stand in such a facility, just as many stand in public houses, despite seats being available. If about 45 people stand THROUGH CHOICE in the rush hours, then the total passenger capacity would be similar to a standard class seated coach.
I doubt that those standing in the old tavern cars complained about this !

For those unaware, my objections to the IETs are primarily the effective absence of catering and the hard seats. I don't object to the principle of bi mode operation, indeed I consider this to be a considerable advantage.
Add a buffet car, and fit padded seats, and I would consider them acceptable modern trains.

[IndustryInsider]

The door was slightly ajar, and in barged Broadgage... 

[TaplowGreen]

The door was slightly ajar, and in barged Broadgage... 

I must admit I'd never known he had an interest in these issues? Has he ever mentioned buffets before?

[IndustryInsider]

Once or twice I believe.

[broadgage]

Not for some time though.

[johnneyw]

A replica traveling pub might go down well on some of the heritage rail tours across the UK^▸ (United Kingdom), perhaps especially outside of the peak season, whenever they start again.

[broadgage]

A replica traveling pub might go down well on some of the heritage rail tours across the UK^▸ (United Kingdom), perhaps especially outside of the peak season, whenever they start again.

To be called "the broadgage tavern" of course.