Old documents

[whole diary]

[grahame]

As part of her Melksham history work, Lisa uses a CZUR Smart Book Scanner. I've had a chance to try it today ... a whole folder of 16 images (32 page leaflet) and uplaoded it ((here)) - Thames Traveller timetable from winter 1986 / spring 1987 from Network South East



Planning more to follow - the scanner is in isolation with us ... as are 1000 other things that need to be done!


I am aware of scanned document archives - no attempt to compete with them as I wouldn't have the reason, motivation or patience - but I will sprinkle in some documents of interest.

[Reginald25]

May be of interest although anoraks no doubt have their own copy. I'll try to make a better copy later or find an A1 scanner.
In the late 50s I was given a route map. Makes an interesting study. Can't put too much reliance on the details but e.g. I see the RHDR is shown (the original BR^▸ (British Rail(ways)) Dungeness station closed many years before) yet it also shows going past Hythe to Sandling as the was the original intention in 1920s that never happened.
I'd be interested if anyone can identify a feature defining what year the map represents.

[CyclingSid]

Yarmouth station on the Isle of Wight closed 1953, so as no Freshwater, Yarmouth and Newport Railway is shown I would suggest it is after that date.
Over to the experts to slice the salami finer!

[grahame]

Yarmouth station on the Isle of Wight closed 1953, so as no Freshwater, Yarmouth and Newport Railway is shown I would suggest it is after that date.
Over to the experts to slice the salami finer!

Border Counties Railway (Riccarton Junction to Hexham) closed 1956 (passengers) not shown

Dornoch closed 1960 is shown.

So between 1956 and 1960?

[Andy]

Princetown (closed 1956) is also not shown.

[grahame]

Princetown (closed 1956) is also not shown.

Ashburton (closed 1958) not shown

Mortonhamstead (closed to passengers in 1959) not shown ... however Teign valley line closed in 1958 to passenger trains IS shown; perhaps it remained available for passenger diversions if the sea wall was closed as well as to freight until 1961 when it was shut completely.

[bobm]

The Abingdon branch is missing.  That closed to passengers in 1963.

[Reginald25]

Thanks for all the advice. From other considerations, I know it was no earlier than 1958 and no later than 1962. From the responses looks like 1960, give or take a year?

[RichardB]

Can narrow it down even more than that, the Midland & Great Northern in Norfolk is not there (closed 1959) but the Melton Constable bit that survived beyond Sheringham is - that closed in 1964.

That backs up your thought of 1960. 

[stuving]

The line to Turriff closed in 1966 - so that places the map later still. Of course there's no guarantee all previous changes had got onto the map!

[Witham Bobby]

it looks like the Kingham - Banbury line is truncated at Chipping Norton.  This was the case from 1951 until the service was withdrawn in 1962

[Robin Summerhill]

That map appeared on Flickr some time ago and, as others have already noticed, there are some incosistencies in it.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/93936890@N02/41085827862/

I spotted a few things immediately and here is the comment I left on Flickr:

"The line from Berkeley Road junction (shown on the map between Bristol and Gloucester) to Lydney across the original Severn Bridge is not shown. This closed officially in November 1964 although it had been "temporarily" closed between Sharpness and Lydney since 1960 when the bridge was damaged.

Leaving that to one side, the Chepstow to Monmouth and Ross on Wye line closed in January 1959 is not shown, whilst the Bristol to Frome line via Radstock is shown, and this closed in November 1959. That might suggest (mistakes permitting!) that the map dates from the start of the 1959 Summer timetable."

In addition, the line style used (ie generally straight lines rather then curved ones) first appeared in that style on the national railway map, if I remember correctly, in 1966.

Now that the matter has come up again I begin to wonder whether this was an official map at all, or if it was something put together by a third party based on the 1966 map. It could theoretically be done quite easily if the places not served by rail by then (eg Dursley) were marked on the map. Indeed, if it were a later creation in post-PC days one could probably scan the original map and reproduce the typeface and font for one's additions.

Just a thought, and if anyone wants to shoot it down in flames please do so  

[IndustryInsider]

Now that the matter has come up again I begin to wonder whether this was an official map at all, or if it was something put together by a third party based on the 1966 map. It could theoretically be done quite easily if the places not served by rail by then (eg Dursley) were marked on the map. Indeed, if it were a later creation in post-PC days one could probably scan the original map and reproduce the typeface and font for one's additions.

Just a thought, and if anyone wants to shoot it down in flames please do so  

Or it could be that sloppy mistakes did also happen in the British Railways days... 

[ellendune]

Cholsey to Wallingford and Uffington to Faringdon Branches missing

Edit closed in 1959 and 1951 respectively

[eightonedee]

..but the Didcot, Newbury & Southampton, all the way to Winchester, is - I think 1960 is a pretty good guess.