Bristol Airport - proposals for expansion and bus services - merged posts

[whole diary]

[TonyK]

Airbus have breathed new life into the A330 with the "neo" (new engine option), which is basically a re-engined, more fuel-efficient evolution. It's been quite successful. It doesn't have the legs of the A350, but perfectly good for flights up to about 10 hours, which is why Virgin (for example) have ordered both - the A330 neo's to replace their current A330 "ceo's" (current engine option).

The A330 also forms the basis of the Voyager* aircraft, used by the RAF^▸ (Royal Air Force) for a variety of roles, including troop and VIP transport, refuelling, and mobile hospital. I was lucky enough to get a ride on one. The view from the window is more interesting than on most flights.







(*The aircraft are comfortable, fast, and do not smell of badly serviced toilet. They should not be confused with the train of the same name.)

[Bmblbzzz]

Bristol Airport is a business. Those Canadian teachers are no fools. They invested in a reasonably good airport and have spent a lot of money on getting more out of their investment. They are very proud of that in Ontario, my friend, a retired principal who follows events closely, tells me.

By chance, I've heard that the Ontario Teachers Pension Fund have just bought a big agribusiness conglomerate in the Goulburn [?sp] Valley of Australia. They own a lot of things in a lot of places and I don't think they're just for teachers nowadays!

[infoman]

on Radio Bristol before 10:00am on wednesday 15 september 2021

[Bmblbzzz]

Didn't hear that but it was reported on B24/7 yesterday that Dan Norris and the leaders of North Somerset and BANES were about to 'outmanoeuvre'  Marvin Rees and the leader of South Glos on the airport expansion. I can't now find the article and whether it bears any relation to what he said today, I do not know...

[Red Squirrel]

There is an extraordinary meeting of WECA^» (West of England Combined Authority - about) on 21st Sept, focusing on the Climate Emergency. Item 7 on the agenda - the only motion, as far as I can see - is:

7. MOTION SUBMITTED FOR CONSIDERATION BY THE WEST OF
ENGLAND JOINT COMMITTEE
The following motion has been submitted for consideration by the West of
England Joint Committee:
Motion on Bristol Airport Expansion
Motion to be moved by Metro Mayor Dan Norris.
‘The Joint Committee recognises:
- There is a climate and biodiversity emergency.
- The West of England has ambition net zero targets for 2030.
- The proposed expansion of Bristol Airport is one of the biggest carbon
decisions in the region for the coming decade.
- The pandemic has significantly reduced air travel with a 75.6% drop in
passenger numbers in 2020.
- Bristol Airport’s role as an employer in the region and the need for a just
transition to a greener economy that does not leave workers worse-off.
- Bristol City Council and Bath and North East Somerset Council
opposition to current airport expansion and North Somerset Council's
decision to refuse planning permission to expand beyond 10 million
passengers a year.
The Joint Committee resolves:
- To oppose the latest plans to expand Bristol Airport.’

[Bmblbzzz]

That's the meeting at which Dan Norris and co are reportedly going to 'outmanoeuvre' Rees and his S.Glos buddy.

[Phantom]

The XR^▸ (Crossrail) crowd are currently protesting outside of Weston town hall about the expansion

They needn't worry, never known NSC to approve anything that makes an improvement anywhere

[grahame]

From Dan Norris on Facebook

Front page news! I’m delighted the West of England Combined Authority’s Joint Committee now officially opposes the latest plans to expand Bristol Airport, voting in favour of my motion. The expansion plans are badly-judged, badly-timed, and bad for our planet.

[Bmblbzzz]

https://www.bristol247.com/news-and-features/news/regional-leaders-oppose-bristol-airport-expansion-plans/
Rees was double booked, sent his deputy, who abstained. All others voted to support Noris's motion voicing opposition to the plans, with several amendments put forward by Savage of S Glos. Final decision lies with planning inspectors.

[broadgage]

This report states that the only realistic way to reduce carbon dioxide from aviation is to fly less.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-59045851

No amount of tinkering at the edges by slightly more efficient air aircraft, or adding a little veg oil to the fuel will significantly reduce emissions.

Neither will counting on future developments reduce emissions in the here and now.

If flying is to be reduced, then we dont need more airport capacity at Bristol, Heathrow, or anywhere else.

[TonyK]

If flying is to be reduced, then we dont need more airport capacity at Bristol, Heathrow, or anywhere else.

It isn't going to be reduced. More people want to fly for business or leisure than are prepared to sellotape themselves to an aircraft, and get banged up for doing so. They just don't make as much noise. The argument against Bristol Airport should not be confused with the argument against flying per se, and won't be by the inspector. His remit is planning law and government policy, and if he thinks the airport has a good case against those yardsticks, he will find in their favour. That won't necessarily be the end of the matter, but he might think the argument of cutting emissions to travel to get on the plane pans out in real maths.

You may think adding a little veg oil is tinkering, but once the Ontario Teachers Pension and World Domination Fund starts producing entirely green aviation fuel from genetically modified crops grown on its Australian farms, there will be no argument against flying. Not that that will stop some people. Aviation has come a very long way in little over a century, and there is no reason to think the journey is finished. The picture in the report is, I think, taken from inside a Boeing 787. Competition between them and Airbus is reducing fuel consumption per passenger mile, and will continue to do so.

You will remember the days when we could buy indulgences by paying for a tree to be planted in memory of our week's self catering in Benidorm. Then we found out that the Scottish government was chopping them down to build wind farms, and Drax was importing even more to burn in its inferno. It never did more than make the few people who fell for the hype feel a little better. Expanding Bristol airport's operations might do some actual good if it stops travel to other airports to catch flights. And if flying does fall and they are stuck with an empty shiny new terminal, then we can say that there never was a need for it, and Ontario pensioners can take the hit.

(I know two retired teachers in Ontario. Retired teachers here would envy them.)

[ellendune]

You may think adding a little veg oil is tinkering, but once the Ontario Teachers Pension and World Domination Fund starts producing entirely green aviation fuel from genetically modified crops grown on its Australian farms, there will be no argument against flying.

So we use agricultural land to allow people to fly rather than feeding people.  Not a good look if as predicted the known amount of climate change causes food shortages in some parts of the world. 

[Red Squirrel]

Those green aeroplanes have a long way to go...

[broadgage]

I very much doubt that vegetable derived oil will permit of green flying.

Firstly it needs to be produced without significant fossil fuel input. No diesel tractors used in cultivation, no natural gas derived fertilser used on the crop, no gas or coal used in the works that process the fuel.

And secondly, even if such fuel does become available, it should be used FIRSTLY for essential purposes such as emergency services vehicles, food production and transport, shipping, and existing public transport.

Only after such high priority applications have been greened  should passenger flights be considered.

Meanwhile in the here and now, the only way to reduce carbon dioxide from flying is to reduce flying. Tax aviation to the same extent as road fuel. Prohibit any advertising or promotion of air travel. End all grants and subsidies to airlines, airports and related enterprises.

[broadgage]

Those green aeroplanes have a long way to go...

Agreed.
Not only do trains come out best, but reducing the carbon emissions of trains is relatively simple. Electrification is a mature technology and available right now. No need for hugely expensive research into things not yet invented, simply get on and electrify major rail routes with existing and readily available technology. Use battery power as a second choice when OHLE is not suitable.
A greater proportion of electricity, whether for railway traction current or for more general uses, should be produced renewably. This also needs no expensive research. Simply get on and do it. Wind turbines and solar energy are mature technologies and available right now.

No sensible person expects large long haul electric passenger aircraft, it simply cant be done with available or reasonably foreseable technology.