0740 Reading to Oxford - timekeeping since 15/12 change

[whole diary]

[IndustryInsider]

Yes, a little tinkering required here and there.  Though the fact remains that Didcot is  an acute pinch point that needs serious money spent on it!

Do you mean grade separation or something less?

Yes indeed.  A proper job!

[mjones]

I think we need to spend a few more decades doing studies first...

[Oxonhutch]

I think we need to spend a few more decades doing studies first...

I can save them a few decades! My thoughts, previously posted from waiting several years at this pinch point! 

[IndustryInsider]

An excellent plan. As I thought when you posted it originally.

[Gordon the Blue Engine]

Grade separation won’t solve all the conflict problems at Didcot.  NR^» (Network Rail - home page) will still drop southbound freight trains (often running up to an hour before or after their planned path) in front of Didcot – Padd stoppers at Didcot East, as they do with northbound freights at Scours Lane (Reading West Junction).

Timekeeping will not improve around Reading until freights run through the area in their planned paths.  They should be realistically timed.  They should not be allowed to run early, as that just causes problems down the line.  If they can’t or don’t leave when they should do, they should have to wait until the next empty path to their destination (or at least to a recess point on the route).  And it can’t be fair on regulators in TVSC^» (Thames Valley Signalling Centre - about) to have to deal with out-of-path freights that turn up when they shouldn’t do.

We just need a bit more discipline in running freight trains through the congested Thames Valley.  I noticed on Monday morning that a westbound freight left Acton Yard about 50 minutes late, and later caused  delays to Padd – Bedwyn and Padd – Plymouth services down the B&H^▸ (Berks and Hants - railway line from Reading to Taunton via Westbury).  You can see similar examples every day.

[ray951]

While grade separation is a good idea it isn't going to happen any time soon and in the meantime the timetable still needs fixing.

Services this week have been 2, 6, 3, 9, 7 minutes late into Oxford.

In the last 2 weeks this service has been RT 0% and 0-5L 27% and the target is 92%.

Given that the problem with the timetable now appear to be a feature rather than a bug when can we expect something to change? And will it be earlier than May?

It also highlights an issue with Delay-Repay as although this train is late every day passengers aren't due any compensation as the train has not yet arrived more than 15 minutes late.

[IndustryInsider]

I doubt much will or can be done until May.  There is a team dealing with logging the regular problem trains across the whole of the network, of which that is clearly one, with a view of working out why and trying to sort out the issues.  For quite a few of them there is no easy fix without alterations to the timetable and other services.

Where is the delay usually incurred with that one?

[ray951]

II thanks for responding and from where I am stood, literally on P5, it looks the following trains appear to be the one causing issues as they all attempt to cross Didcot East Junction before the 0740 to Oxford:

4Q23 Manchester to Southampton FL at 0759
1D14 Paddington to Oxford at 0800
1P16 Worcester to Paddington at 0803

Of course 1P16 has to get through Didcot East Junction before 1L06 Swansea to Paddington which passes through Didcot at 0806.

That all appears to be really tight which is why I guess the 0740 is always late.

As well as the issue with Didcot East, the turnaround time at Reading appears too short and it also can leave Reading late which then causes a bigger problem at Didcot East.

It would be good if GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway) could be proactive and put out some information at the station and on the train stating that they are aware of the problem and are dealing with it, etc, etc. Simple customer service.

[onthecushions]

Why is a freight meandering around commuter land at 0759?

OTC

[IndustryInsider]

Why is a freight meandering around commuter land at 0759?

Because they bid for and pay for the paths.  There’s too much freight around, especially on that key corridor to keep it parked away somewhere for five or six hours a day during the peaks.

[onthecushions]

Why is a freight meandering around commuter land at 0759?

Because they bid for and pay for the paths.  There’s too much freight around, especially on that key corridor to keep it parked away somewhere for five or six hours a day during the peaks.

Agreed. But don't passengers pay very high peak fares so that the TOC^▸ (Train Operating Company) can outbid the price sensitive freight sector/operator?  A five to six hour period with (less)  freight would be in two halves, am and pm and would be both partial and tidal. Also the paths don't seem really to be there as evidenced by the delays and erratic timekeeping. Do freight operators really pay for the delay minutes they cause or does NR^» (Network Rail - home page) (i.e the taxpayer) pick up the bill?

Perhaps we need a fattish controller again.

OTC

[stuving]

Why is a freight meandering around commuter land at 0759?

Because they bid for and pay for the paths.  There’s too much freight around, especially on that key corridor to keep it parked away somewhere for five or six hours a day during the peaks.

Agreed. But don't passengers pay very high peak fares so that the TOC^▸ (Train Operating Company) can outbid the price sensitive freight sector/operator?  A five to six hour period with (less)  freight would be in two halves, am and pm and would be both partial and tidal. Also the paths don't seem really to be there as evidenced by the delays and erratic timekeeping. Do freight operators really pay for the delay minutes they cause or does NR^» (Network Rail - home page) (i.e the taxpayer) pick up the bill?

Perhaps we need a fattish controller again.

OTC

If you look at Friday, 4O23 (not Q) was on time at Didcot North, but itself had to wait. So it's unlikely its operators will be paying for what happened afterwards. (Being on time was a bit lucky, as it was late at Oxford North by exactly the recovery time allowed for it there.)

As class 4, can run at 75 mph. What isn't stated about that is how fast it can accelerate. It lost 3 minutes to Didcot East (waiting plus starting up) and 2 more to reach full speed. So I'd suggest the paths are there, provided nothing gets in their way. Once a goods train stops on the line, and has to start up again, that's another matter.

I know NR have been fussing for many years about getting more goods trains into this high-speed (for goods) category, but I'm not sure what they can reasonably demand in terms of power:weight. You might think that big electric locos should be able to do better, as they certainly have more MW on tap. However, acceleration depends on adhesion, and no locomotives hauling 1600 tons are going to match a passenger train with about half its axles motored unless they too weigh half the total train weight. can't see that happening!

Time for some lateral thinking, perhaps...

[ellendune]

Why is a freight meandering around commuter land at 0759?

Because they bid for and pay for the paths.  There’s too much freight around, especially on that key corridor to keep it parked away somewhere for five or six hours a day during the peaks.

Agreed. But don't passengers pay very high peak fares so that the TOC^▸ (Train Operating Company) can outbid the price sensitive freight sector/operator?  A five to six hour period with (less)  freight would be in two halves, am and pm and would be both partial and tidal. Also the paths don't seem really to be there as evidenced by the delays and erratic timekeeping. Do freight operators really pay for the delay minutes they cause or does NR^» (Network Rail - home page) (i.e the taxpayer) pick up the bill?

Perhaps we need a fattish controller again.

OTC

So a freight train starts off in Southampton and Ends in say Birmingham - quite a short journey really.  

So It cannot leave Southampton till after the peak there and has to be in Birmingham before the peak there.  Just about doable for that journey though not many paths available in that narrow slot.

Oh it could go after the evening peak, but then it hits problems with night closures for maintenance.  

Lengthen that journey to be Southampton to Glasgow and it becomes impossible unless you find some siding to hold the train in for a large part of the day.  They the freight customer complains it would be quicker to send it by road!

Either you accept that freight is all day traffic or we don't have rail freight.  More lorries on roads and more pollution.  

The question is what sort of world we want to live in.

One could ask the same question about all the people who travel long distances in the peak to work each day. Why should they have priority doing that?  Wouldn't it be better if they found work near where they lived or live near where they work?

The question is what sort of world we want to live in.

[Richard Fairhurst]

Bring back the Didcot, Newbury & Southampton!

[nickswift99]

No thanks. You'd have to demolish my house! (But I do get the sentiment)

On a more serious note, I do wonder whether there are enough passing loops available for freight to be "staged" through key pinch points.

Tinkering with the timetable can always help but the only way of really fixing things is to provide capacity at key junctions like Didcot East to benefit all rail users, both freight and passenger.