Fines for drivers caught dropping passengers outside designated zones

[whole diary]

[grahame]

From The Weston Mercury

Bristol Airport has introduced an £100 fine for motorists who pick up or drop off anyone outside official parking areas or pick-up/drop-off zones.

A van is understood to patrol the airport 24/7 looking for offenders and handing out fines.

Bristol Airport says the recently introduced £100 instant fine is to deter motorists from 'unsafe' behaviour, and that air quality at the airport is within Government objective limits.

I'm all for safety including safe air, and encouraging people to behave in a same manner, but I do find myself wondering if there's an element of someone making good income here too.  It would appear that the newspaper also had the same wonders, but didn't get an answer:

The airport did not answer questions about how much money it had collected in fines since the £100 penalty was introduced, or how much money it collects in parking fees every year.

Fining people for parking violations is a "shoe in" at times as - having transgressed - people are less likely to argue. And playing the safety and environment cards is a good headline for a business proposition. Listening carefully to talk of other parking patrol and enforcement schemes - current and planned - I understand that it's common practise for the enforcement company to generate almost all of its income from fines, and for it to receive little or no income from the owner of the car park.  That's a very real concern; for 2020, a number of us will be keeping a careful eye on a local scheme which is planned for a car park in our town - it's not the introduction of car parking charges that worries us, but the enforcement arrangements when the current spaces are only painted long enough for a mini ...

[stuving]

Surely this "fine" is related to the charges for "Drop & Go" parking:

Duration          Price
Up to 10 mins    £3.00
10 to 20 mins    £5.00
20 to 40 mins    £7.00
40 to 60 mins    £20.00
Each additional hour or part of thereafter    £20.00

[Timmer]

I’ve read somewhere that car parking is where most airports actually make most of their money and going on what they charge I can well believe it.

I would imagine they don’t make much out of the likes of EasyJet and Ryanair when it comes to take off and landing fees as these have probably been negotiated to rock bottom so you keep the airline serving your airport. Without them you have no flights which means no passengers and the budget airlines know this.

Totally agree with Graham that the environment and safety card may probably being played here especially when they raised the drop off price to £3. Top tip, use the Short Stay car Park as it’s £2 for 20 minutes. But don’t go over that as it jumps to £5!

I will give Bristol Airport some credit for adding the new free ‘Waiting Zone’ next to ‘Silver Zone’ so you don’t have to wait in the country lanes to pick up passengers. Though go over 60 minutes and it’s £25!

Compared to other regional airports, Bristol isn’t the worst when it comes to charging. Edinburgh having just raised their drop off to £5! Less of an excuse mind when you have the Edinburgh tram running to the airport, something we who use Bristol airport can only dream about.

I share your concerns when it comes to enforcement arrangements at car parks Graham. I absolutely hate car parks that use private companies who use ANPR, particularly private parking companies like supermarkets, leisure parks, rail companies etc and worst of all hospitals!

Taking the Bath RUH as an example, where their parking has been in the headlines recently. I was shocked to learn that the private company gets to keep 100% of the money raised in fines which to me is disgraceful. Wouldn’t be so bad if the hospital benefited in some way.

Yes I know the RUH has a real parking problem but private companies should not be profiting from it by sticking up a few cameras. The RUH should look after it and enforce penalties where necessary so if there is an issue it can be dealt with locally rather than with some faceless company desperate to get your money.

[Marlburian]

Sometimes I wonder if the three or four "drop off" spaces at the bottom of the steps outside Reading Station (north side) are being occupied by "pick up" drivers. I've seen cars parked there with their engines off and the driver just sitting there or standing nearby. So one has the choice  of blocking the road  and impeding a taxi driver  or, even more of a sin, stopping in the spaces dedicated to taxis.  Luckily I only "drop off" very occasionally and my passenger has no luggage, so I need only to pause.

As for hospital parking, finding a space is the main challenge at the Royal Berks in Reading. Luckily I've nearly always been able to walk to it from the station - and, more luckily, back afterwards. I believe that the new Government has pledged to make parking free for hospital staff and for patients who have to visit frequently. I see no reason why visitors and patients with relatively-minor conditions shouldn't pay. A free-for-all would mean even more problems with lack of spaces, especially with people working nearby opting to park there.

Marlburian

[broadgage]

In what way does dropping off a passenger only in the designated area improve air quality versus dropping them off in the wrong place?

[eightonedee]

Sometimes I wonder if the three or four "drop off" spaces at the bottom of the steps outside Reading Station (north side) are being occupied by "pick up" drivers.

Marlburian - you also have all the spaces on the ground floor of the multistorey car park in the circulation area just beyond the pay barriers to use as well!

[Bmblbzzz]

In what way does dropping off a passenger only in the designated area improve air quality versus dropping them off in the wrong place?

That probably depends on where the air monitoring equipment is situated.

[JayMac]

These are not fines. Only a court can fine someone.

These are penalty charges for breaching the terms of an implied contract.

[grahame]

These are not fines. Only a court can fine someone.

These are penalty charges for breaching the terms of an implied contract.

Yes  - though the original journalist called them fines.   I plead guilty to being a sheep and following.  And as you're not a court, you can't fine me for that transgression.  Don't expect you to try a penalty charge either as there I son implied contract 

[Marlburian]

Sometimes I wonder if the three or four "drop off" spaces at the bottom of the steps outside Reading Station (north side) are being occupied by "pick up" drivers.

Marlburian - you also have all the spaces on the ground floor of the multistorey car park in the circulation area just beyond the pay barriers to use as well!

I approach the station from the west via Greyfriars Road. Bit of a faff to drive all the way around to the other side of the station to use those ground-floor spaces for 15 seconds! I had to look at a street map to see how to do it - so let's make it "more than a bit of a faff".

A few years ago on Sundays I would approach the north side of the station via Bagnall Way to pick someone up - there were several "lurking spaces". Nowadays I only "set down" and that's only when trains from Tilehurst are "delayed". Let me admit that if this is during the evening rush-hour, I'm tempted to jettison my passenger at Reading Retail Park (near the bottom of Norcot Hill) and let her find her own way to the station by bus - there's one every five minutes or so.

Incidentally, with Reading Station having the most expensive parking outside London I have wondered whether some competition could have been introduced by letting commuters park in all those empty spaces at the old Royal Mail sorting office.

[stuving]

Incidentally, with Reading Station having the most expensive parking outside London I have wondered whether some competition could have been introduced by letting commuters park in all those empty spaces at the old Royal Mail sorting office.

I think Hermes Property Unit Trust might have other ideas, though any short-term use of the site would depend on who owns it now. The plans for the new development, however, are remarkable mainly for how little parking they include. There are just 75 spaces for the 658 residential units, and 11 for the office (16,574 m²) and retail (1,889 m²) uses. That includes the disabled (or "accessible") spaces - only 2 each for retail and office - which looks way too low, unless I've missed something.

[eightonedee]

The plans for the new development, however, are remarkable mainly for how little parking they include.

This is planning policy in action, although to be fair I think that the flats in the development are intended to be marketed to London commuters who probably will not be car owners. If someone has done the job properly, there should be provision for a "car club" - a commercially operated car share (in reality, car hire) so that anyone who needs a car at the weekend can hire one.

The office workers will be "encouraged "to use public transport if their employers do not book spaces at other town centre car parks at considerable expense - it's not just the station car park that's expensive in Reading. As to those using the retail units, it will be take your chances in the retail park next door or an expensive visit to one of the other public car parks in Reading. I wonder though how viable the retail units will be, even in prosperous and booming Reading.

[stuving]

The plans for the new development, however, are remarkable mainly for how little parking they include.

This is planning policy in action, although to be fair I think that the flats in the development are intended to be marketed to London commuters who probably will not be car owners. If someone has done the job properly, there should be provision for a "car club" - a commercially operated car share (in reality, car hire) so that anyone who needs a car at the weekend can hire one.

The office workers will be "encouraged "to use public transport if their employers do not book spaces at other town centre car parks at considerable expense - it's not just the station car park that's expensive in Reading. As to those using the retail units, it will be take your chances in the retail park next door or an expensive visit to one of the other public car parks in Reading. I wonder though how viable the retail units will be, even in prosperous and booming Reading.

There is indeed provision for a car club - two spaces! The application is 182252, if anyone is interested; its status is a bit unclear as it entered consultation in April 2019 and no progress is recorded since.

[TonyK]

I would imagine they don’t make much out of the likes of EasyJet and Ryanair when it comes to take off and landing fees as these have probably been negotiated to rock bottom so you keep the airline serving your airport. Without them you have no flights which means no passengers and the budget airlines know this.

You don't pay to land, just for the departure. And aircraft parking over 90 minutes, baggage handling, staff car parking, training to drive on the airfield, noisy aircraft, passenger screening, arriving late, not following the preferred approach path, etc, etc. You can find the April 2019 charges in the leaflet on this page I wouldn't assume that these are heavily discounted for the regular airlines. An airport is an expensive place to run, and although Bristol Airport loves and needs easyJet and to a lesser extent Ryanair, the airlines can't do much without an airport.  Cosy deals done behind closed doors can breach competition rules, and other airlines are not afraid to cry foul if they become aware of them, and be sure that they would. A few years ago, Ryanair famously scrubbed its "London" Stansted to Newquay service amid a lot of noise about the airport's imposition of a "development surcharge" of £5 per passenger. Ryanair protested that they were being charged to improve the airport so that it could attract other airlines in competition with Ryanair, and it wasn't having it. The next closest airport is Exeter, and if you were going to Newquay and had to take a train for half the trip, you might as well take one all the way. Ryanair did return to Newquay after the airport scrapped the fee, but behind the bluster there was a suspicion that passenger loadings weren't sufficient to turn a profit, and the surcharge was being used as an excuse. An extra fiver on a flight would not have worried the typical passenger for that route overmuch, any more than the surfboard and golf bag charges did.

You are wondering about the actual figures, and I've decided that as I can't go out, I might as well try to save you all looking them up and doing the sums. The A320 NEO is now commonly seen at Bristol Airport when it is open, painted in easyJet orange. There are some A321 NEOs, which are bigger, but we'll stick with the A320 as our example, with seats for 189 passengers and a MTOW (maximum take-off weight) of 79 tonnes. Fees are based on MTOW, no matter how full or laden the aircraft is. The runway fee,according to the price list, is £1295.20. ATC^▸ (Automatic Train Control) (Air Traffic Control) costs £447.60. The stand charge is £61.80. Each passenger is subject to a passenger load supplement of £15.50, a security levy of £6.20, security and insurance surcharge of 34p and 29p towards the police service, a total of £22.33 per passenger, or £4220.37 for a full aircraft. The total cost of everything levied by the airport for a full A320 NEO is therefore  £6024.97, or £31.88 per passenger. I have omitted the 54p per passenger for hold luggage scanning. There will be charges for servicing, normally minimal between flights with routine periodic service being done wherever the airline sees as its best option, toilet pump-out, drinking water. These fees are only paid on departure, but very similar will be levied at the other end. Then there will be fuel, which on a rough guess of 20,000 litres for a 4-hour flight at 58p per litre would cost £11,600, or around £61.38 per passenger. 

My ticket to Tenerife for next January cost less than £31.88, but of course a lot of the passengers will be paying a lot more. Once the average fare per passenger hits £100 or so, the staff wages start to be paid, and probably around £120 a head, an operating profit shows for the flight, ignoring the $110 - $120 million cost of the aircraft.

I've done a bit of guessing in terms of fuel consumption. The A320 NEO on a 4 hour trip returns over 90 miles per gallon per passenger, according to the blurb. By all means check my figures, but my brain hurts, so I won't challenge you. Treat them purely as a rough guide. How any airline turns a profit is beyond me.

The numbers for the airport sound phenomenal, but I bet the expenses are too. I would imagine that the Canadian pension scheme that owns the place would want to maximise income and minimise costs in normal times, let alone during the current pandemic. I normally get the bus there, so won't ever incur the whopping charges that are usually levied on drivers trying to save a much smaller amount.

[Alan Pettitt]

These are not fines. Only a court can fine someone.

These are penalty charges for breaching the terms of an implied contract.

I disagree...

https://www.southampton.gov.uk/libraries/library-activities/library-fines-charges.aspx