Steam engine 34067 'Tangmere' - merged posts

[whole diary]

[Thatcham Crossing]

Presumably this ban includes the "Jacobite" (or "Harry Potter Train" as many may know it) up in the West Highlands? (Fort William to Mallaig).

Having seen how popular it is last Summer, that will be a big blow (and to the local economy aswell).

[grahame]

Presumably this ban includes the "Jacobite" (or "Harry Potter Train" as many may know it) up in the West Highlands? (Fort William to Mallaig).

During the previous ban, weren't some specials taken over / run by other companies on West Coast's behalf?   If I recall that right, it may mean that some of the services still run - managed and operated by another of the specialist companies, but booked through WCRC and perhaps using their pool of rolling stock.

TransWilts supporter members are probably aware of my concerns from a long time back - April 2014 - http://www.firstgreatwestern.info/coffeeshop/index.php?topic=13918.0 - at some of the issues / dangers of operating steam  specials over unusual routes, and the issues brought on with people coming along to see.  And I have to admit to being underwhelmed (and further concerned) in the two years since I wrote that.  So my comment that there might be a work around is not through any desire to promote the possibility; safety of other rail users, staff, participants, and people who come along to watch comes top of my list.  And that does not apply just to WCRC originated services.

[PhilWakely]

During the previous ban, weren't some specials taken over / run by other companies on West Coast's behalf?   If I recall that right, it may mean that some of the services still run - managed and operated by another of the specialist companies, but booked through WCRC and perhaps using their pool of rolling stock.

IIRC^▸ (if I recall/remember/read correctly) yes, this was the case, but the only motive power that could be used had to have safety equipment that couldn't be overridden - either their diesel pool or 61306 Mayflower. Wasn't the 8-day 'Great Britain' tour reduced to diesels piloting the booked steam?

[chrisr_75]

Presumably this ban includes the "Jacobite" (or "Harry Potter Train" as many may know it) up in the West Highlands? (Fort William to Mallaig).

Having seen how popular it is last Summer, that will be a big blow (and to the local economy aswell).

I think a serious accident would be even more of a blow...

It's high time this lot are long gone for good imho. I do also have concerns about just how appropriate it is to be operating steam locos on a modern network. Yes, the enthusiasts like it, but at the end of the day the rail network is all about moving people and freight safely and efficiently from A to B - it's core purpose is not as a tourist attraction.

I'm almost surprised the unions haven't stepped in and demanded the end of this companies operations due to the safety of the travelling public being put it risk, but then, there's no pay dispute is there, so why would they bother getting involved in something genuinely putting people at risk? Does anyone know if ASLEF^» (Associated Society of Locomotive Engineers and Firemen - about)/RMT^▸ (National Union of Rail, Maritime & Transport Workers) have even commented?

[TonyK]

During the previous ban, weren't some specials taken over / run by other companies on West Coast's behalf?   If I recall that right, it may mean that some of the services still run - managed and operated by another of the specialist companies, but booked through WCRC and perhaps using their pool of rolling stock.

That may be the ultimate workaround - to have a responsible operator lease (or sub-lease) WCRC's rolling stock, hire their drivers (except the one facing charges), and operate the services with a view to an ultimate takeover. The market is certainly there for the current capacity as anyone who has been disappointed when trying to book a trip will know. That assumes of course that:
 a) a responsible operator exists and
 b) the model of mixing heritage stock with about to be heritage modern stock on an active railway is still sustainable.

Steam excursions became popular at a time when Sunday was very much the day the railway went to sleep. That is certainly no longer the case - if it isn't closed for engineering, it has scheduled services running on it. I hope that the specials can continue to run along mainline routes. Steam trains can certainly run as fast as a sprinter. Although acceleration and braking are not as good, they tend not to stop so frequently. Certainly, safety equipment must be comparable in action to any other rail vehicle, and the crews must be competent, in terms of rules and laws of the railway, route knowledge, and the special skills needed to haul a rake of 10 coaches behind a nonagenarian smoke-belching behemoth. The railway and its staff also need to be able to cope with the differences.

If all these things cannot be put into place, safety cannot be ensured, and the only place for the preserved steam engine - and Tornado for that matter - will be the preserved railway.

[TaplowGreen]

It could be a source of extra rolling stock for FGW^▸ (First Great Western), I'd love to see the looks on people's faces when the 0657 from Taplow rolls in pulled by a steam engine!

(more seriously, do they have diesel locos that could be used elsewhere, and what is likely to happen to the stock now that they are no longer able to operate?)

[grahame]

It could be a source of extra rolling stock for FGW^▸ (First Great Western), I'd love to see the looks on people's faces when the 0657 from Taplow rolls in pulled by a steam engine!

(more seriously, do they have diesel locos that could be used elsewhere, and what is likely to happen to the stock now that they are no longer able to operate?)

I gave some semi-serious (but purely theoretic) thought to the use of some of the heritage stuff on current day (and day to day) services and conclude that it's a nice but impractical / expensive idea.
a) The old stuff is pretty worn out and will have huge maintenence issues to keep it going
b) The old stuff's likely to use more fuel and be less efficient
c) As each of the old stuff things is likely to be unique or one of few, there's a problem with exprertise
d) It may not be easy to get spares for the old stuff
e) There may not be specialists to operate the old stuff (and they are getting old)
f) Old stuff need more staff (like firemen and guards)
g) Old stuff may not meet modern safetly standards / may not mix well with very fast modern trains
h) Old stuff may be smelly and dirty and the ride may not be very comfortable
i) The old stuff may not be quick enough to get from Plymouth to London in less than 3 hours
j) There will be huge arguments over whether the old stuff looks good in the new GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway) colours

Against those arguments, for certain holiday destination lines there's some potential sense in mixing heritage and national rail services, and attracting significant numbers of enthusiast could be economically sound - an ATOC^» (Association of Train Operating Companies See - here) report http://www.atoc.org/clientfiles/files/publicationsdocuments/ConnectingCommunitiesReport_S10.pdf mentions some, and there was another report too I think.  I could quite forsee Cardiff - Taunton becoming Cardiff - Minehead in alternate hours (1 extra train), Exmouth - Paignton becoming Exmouth - Kingswear, and a couple of others.  But that's the reverse proposal - new stock on old line.  Old stock on current line has been talekd about, but there are very real reliabiity fears, and fears the line(s) would become seasonal, and perhaps problmes as the years went by. Interesting to look at the Lymington experience with heritage "slammers" and consider the current discussion about the Isle of Wight ... also the Cardiff Bay Bubble Car (is the Aylesbury one still running?)

[Merthyr Imp]

It's been Class 153s to Cardiff Bay for a while now.

[Andy]

The Liskeard-Looe line has had a 94xx and a steam railmotor making "guest appearances".  The summer through services to Newquay hauled by a steamie,  D1015 (1062) - even a Deltic or a Vac - may be a possibility.  

[grahame]

The Liskeard-Looe line has had a 94xx and a steam railmotor making "guest appearances".  The summer through services to Newquay hauled by a steamie,  D1015 (1062) - even a Deltic or a Vac - may be a possibility.  

Don't get my "list of issues" wrong ... not saying they're insurmountable every time.   Ideas like a couple of heritage diesel diagrams based at Yeovil Junction  and running up to Swindon (1st train) and Oxford (2nd train) before running a two-hourly Oxford - Salisbury heritage service for the day were so much pie in the sky  and impractical the thought never even became a suggestion and yet remove the word "heritage" and you start seeing something that bears more than a passing resemblance to the Go-op ideas.

Now ... and suggestions comments I make about Looe are based in insufficient knowledge and experience for me to so do with any weight.  But I muse about a summer service that starts with a couple of round trips with a 153, which then attaches to the 08:20 at Liskeard to strengthen the Newquay train for the day.  Splitting back off the 17:22 from Newquay at Par, it runs to Liskeard for the final handful of Looe services. Daytime Looe services in the hands of heritage or guest units.    Nah - it won't happen ... but ...

[ChrisB]

The Aylesbury bubble car is still running in the peaks

[grahame]

Looking back ... at the Western Daily Press of 20th January:

The defendants did not enter any pleas to the charges they faced and District Judge Simon Cooper committed the case to Swindon Crown Court on February 19.

What happens now? I haven't seen any reports from yesterday of a case starting ... should I have??

[PhilWakely]

Looking at the Crown Court listings for yesterday, I couldn't find anything bearing any relation to the case.

[Southernman]

Looking at the Crown Court listings for yesterday, I couldn't find anything bearing any relation to the case.

 New date - 18 March at Swindon Crown Court.

[BerkshireBugsy]

Out of interest on a steam engine footplate, were there is normally more than one person, is it the driver who carries ultimate responsibility for the safe operating of the train?