Drunks on trains - ongoing discussion

[whole diary]

[tonya]

Have just returned from Edinburgh and been plagued with drunks all the way.
A completely drunk man boarded an arriva train at waverley at 8:00 and proceeded to drink several more cans of teannts lager,talking to himself loudly.
At 3 pm I was joined by an aggressively drunk man at Durham who stayed with me and the rest of the carriage shouting and being generally obnoxoious for a couple of hours.
And then between BTM^▸ (Bristol Temple Meads (strictly, it should be BRI)) and Bath I was joined by 30 drunk young things who partied in the train, drinking cider and wine, singing football songs, blocking the corridor etc, intimidating several passengers.
I have seen this type of thing many times before and the police seem totally disinterested, ebvven when there is a drunken brawl. The train crew have my sympathies. The woman guard locked herself in her compartment between Bristol and Bath. I would have done the same if I was her. I suggested to her that she should have refused to take the train out with drunks on it, but she was scathing and angry about the lack of help from transport police or indeed any support from her managers.
What is the company/railway line on this? What can be done to prevent trains becoming like our city centres?
I am inclined to pull the communication cord next time I feel threatened.Presumably the police would have to take an interest then.......

[jester]

Yes, having experienced just this earlier this week......
In fact the drunk person was on the train at 10.30 AM!! After being told in no uncerain terms to curb the shouting and loud/lewd behaviour he was eventually ejected an hour later into the journey after vomiting on the train and rolling in it and also soiling himself!
The guard cleaned up the train before the journey continued.
Unfortuneatly, help (additional help) is not always at hand.

[smithy]

Yes, having experienced just this earlier this week......
In fact the drunk person was on the train at 10.30 AM!! After being told in no uncerain terms to curb the shouting and loud/lewd behaviour he was eventually ejected an hour later into the journey after vomiting on the train and rolling in it and also soiling himself!
The guard cleaned up the train before the journey continued.
Unfortuneatly, help (additional help) is not always at hand.

very common problem.
lost count of the amount of abusive drunks i have turfed off trains and stations.
and yes btp and fgw bosses are useless.

1 example
a conductor was verbally abused by drunks and one of them exposed himself to her,on being taken off the train by police he admitted the offence but nothing has been done about it.

makes a mockery of the posters fgw stick up saying abuse etc will not be tolerated and they along with btp will push for the highest possible sentance.

[Chris from Nailsea]

Tony, jester and smithy, I do sympathise with you on this one.

In Tony's case particularly: British Transport Police have offices at both Bristol Temple Meads and Bath Spa stations. Surely they had somebody on duty who could attend such an incident - particularly to back up a lone female member of staff?

jester - can I ask where your incident happened?

Chris  

[jester]

This drunk boarded at Exd and had downed a bottle of Jack Daniels (and poss some lager) by Ply.
Guy was off at St.Austell. He lay motionless on the platform while the guard (lone female) cleaned up with mop and bucket.

[Chris from Nailsea]

Thanks, jester.

That is just my point: where does it say, in any train staff's contract, that they should have to deal with such socially unacceptable behaviour in that way?  Or indeed, in any station staff's contract?

IMHO^▸ (in my humble opinion), that 'lone female guard' deserves AT LEAST a huge bunch of flowers from her manager, for dealing with that incident so well, and so professionally.

Chris. 

[devon_metro]

Me and Jim were on a 158 off down to Weymouth a few weeks back that forms the booze-ex from Weymouth on a Saturday with a female guard. She told some pretty frightening stories of what goes on and top marks goes to her for friendliness and considering it was an unrefurb with no CCTV^▸ (Closed Circuit Tele Vision), I doubt she had a pleasant journey home. 

[Chris from Nailsea]

Thanks for that, too, d_m.

I think that is where FGW^▸ (First Great Western) management need to address such issues: for example, they should provide suitable staff for such services (they shouldn't just send a single female member of staff out there and expect her to deal with a carriage-full of drunks!) - and perhaps get British Transport Police to send along at least one of their Police Community Support Officers, to keep an eye on things?

 

[vacman]

The problem is that these incidents never get reported, so the top brass in Swindon's ivory towers don't know the extent of the problem's, the BTP^▸ (British Transport Police) are hopeless in prosecuting these scumbags, because they obviously can't be arsed with the paperwork, local managers always seem to be moraly supportive after such incidents BUT it's PREVENTION thats needed, I would encourage any staff to report EVERY incident on the assault report forms at each depot, whether it be verbal or phisical and report to the BTP, I would urge any passengers to report these incidents to the BTP over the phone and get a log number, IF IT'S NOT REPORTED THEN NOTHING WILL BE DONE, despite how pointless it seems at the time, if a regular pattern builds up then the BTP have no option but to investigate.

[Tickets Please]

Tony, jester and smithy, I do sympathise with you on this one.

In Tony's case particularly: British Transport Police have offices at both Bristol Temple Meads and Bath Spa stations. Surely they had somebody on duty who could attend such an incident - particularly to back up a lone female member of staff?

jester - can I ask where your incident happened?

Chris  

The BTP^▸ (British Transport Police) have an office at Bath Spa Station ? - where is that then Chris?

[Chris from Nailsea]

A fair challenge, ilovetrains:

Firstly, I remember an incident fairly recently where a female passenger was assaulted on the west-bound platform, and a senior member of the gateline staff actually shouted across to one of his colleagues on the opposite platform to "Get BTP^▸ (British Transport Police)!" while gesturing to the buildings further up on the opposite platform;

Secondly, I'm sure I've seen BTP PCSOs going through a particular 'private' door on that platform.

Are you suggesting that there isn't actually any formal BTP presence at Bath Spa?  If not, where is the nearest office (after BTM^▸ (Bristol Temple Meads (strictly, it should be BRI)))?

Chris 

[Graz]

I had the unfourtunate experience of seeing some myself yesterday, at Bath Spa. A crowd of around 10 boarded a Great Malvern service shouting, gesturing, swearing and bashing the train. The platform staff 'called the police' but despite the police station being 2 minutes down the road from Bath Spa, we were waiting 15 minutes. Eventually somehow the yobs were all ordered off the train by the platform staff and we got going. This was 10am!

[Tickets Please]

A fair challenge, ilovetrains:

Firstly, I remember an incident fairly recently where a female passenger was assaulted on the west-bound platform, and a senior member of the gateline staff actually shouted across to one of his colleagues on the opposite platform to "Get BTP^▸ (British Transport Police)!" while gesturing to the buildings further up on the opposite platform;

Secondly, I'm sure I've seen BTP PCSOs going through a particular 'private' door on that platform.

Are you suggesting that there isn't actually any formal BTP presence at Bath Spa?  If not, where is the nearest office (after BTM^▸ (Bristol Temple Meads (strictly, it should be BRI)))?

Chris 

i think there are plans to have a permenant community policing base at bath. PCSO's etc etc. Nearest police station is Avon and Somerset on Manvers Street. Nearest BTP office would be at Swindon on platform 3.

[Chris from Nailsea]

Nearest police station is Avon and Somerset on Manvers Street.

It is indeed - but that's not much good.  One of our moderators, travelling home yesterday, had problems at Bath Spa: he told us,

"The problem happened at Bath Spa on my trip up to Oldfield Park- a group of football yobs bashing the train and shouting, the police had to be called but didn't turn up for 15 minutes despite Bath Spa being 2 mins walk from the police station."

 

[tonya]

Thanks for these replies. I have the number on myBTP number on my mobile now and will report these incidents when I see them. I still think though that FGW^▸ (First Great Western) should have a clear policy that the guard must be allowed to refuse to allow the train to proceed if drunks get on, and that their asasessment of the situation must be respected. I don't see why there should be any flexibility about allowing drunk passengers onm trains. Afer all, many TOC^▸ (Train Operating Company)'s like Arriva for example, don't allow their staff any discretion if a passenger doesn't have the correct ticket or has forgotten their railcard. They are charged the full fare and there is no room for negotaition. The same attitude should be applied to drunks, or for that matter , in my opinion, anyone who drinks alcohol on trains.