General election - policies on Transport - what should we look or ask for?

[whole diary]

[CyclingSid]

More from the ever growing magic money tree https://road.cc/content/news/269151-labour-pledges-ps50-head-active-travel-spend-get-england-cycling 
As one of the comments says, like here, how much would get siphoned off before its supposed destination.

[Bmblbzzz]

That would come to about £3.25 billion, assuming "per head" includes children, non-UKers, etc. So I don't know where they get the £7.2 billion pa figure. Or is it just my arithmetic? (Quite likely.  ) Anyway, £3.25 billion sounds immense but at 10% of the total transport budget, it's still tiny compared to the amount that gets spent on roads and indeed railways. https://www.ukpublicspending.co.uk/year_spending_2019UKbn_17bc1n_6065#ukgs302

I see that article mentions "the £17 per person per year, rising to £34 annually by 2025, called for by campaign groups belonging to the Cycling & Walking Alliance" (a group I've never heard of). In practice, in the event of a Labour government being elected, I'd be amazed if the figure even reaches £17 by 2024. I'd be pretty surprised if it reached that even with a Green government tbh.

[onthecushions]

£1.5Bn/yr extra subsidy - 1/3 off fares or 750stkm/yr  (c233 route miles)  of electrification?

OTC

[mjones]

£1.5Bn/yr extra subsidy - 1/3 off fares or 750stkm/yr  (c233 route miles)  of electrification?

OTC

Quite. That's the problem with promises to cut fares or make them free- they are never funded properly and inevitably end up coming out of maintenance or investment budgets.

[grahame]

£1.5Bn/yr extra subsidy - 1/3 off fares or 750stkm/yr  (c233 route miles)  of electrification?

OTC

Quite. That's the problem with promises to cut fares or make them free- they are never funded properly and inevitably end up coming out of maintenance or investment budgets.

I find myself looking at all the furriery at fare rises and inequalities, with everyone saying the system should be sorted out, but everyone who could sort it out if frightened to so.   On the basis that the winners will soon forget and the losers will remember at the next election.    But here's a thought - reduce the fares not by a third but (on average) by a sixth (on average) to sort out the inequities, and use the other half for 100 miles of electrification - catching up on things that have been postponed and where it can make a big capacity difference.   Of course, it won't happen, because the high (pence per mile) prices are to and from the more affluent places, and the party suggesting the fare cuts won't want to give benefit to the "rich places" rather than their "poorer" heartland.

[Red Squirrel]

I don't like the sound of 'furriery' - it sounds a bit like people making gloves and hats out of my close relatives. Did you mean 'furore'?

[Bmblbzzz]

Red Squirrel in furry fury at furore in furriery!

[TonyK]

I don't like the sound of 'furriery' - it sounds a bit like people making gloves and hats out of my close relatives. Did you mean 'furore'?

For f***s... we'll stop right there. grahame is a wonderful provider of the witchcraft that is the interweb, and I shan't level criticism at him for his occasional typo.

Use him or loose him.

[IndustryInsider]

Sound advise, Tony.   

[grahame]

I don't like the sound of 'furriery' - it sounds a bit like people making gloves and hats out of my close relatives. Did you mean 'furore'?

Yes, I did ... right word got stuck in the smell checker on my computer as I posted (bad workman blames his tools, mind - I do have trouble smelling sometimes).

[broadgage]

Is the promised fare reduction in addition to the free unicorn* for every child, or instead ?
*vegan alternative under discussion.

[eightonedee]

While we are in pedantry mode-

Sound advise, Tony.   Wink

Advice, I think!

[Robin Summerhill]

From the Independent

Up to three-quarters off train fares and free travel for under-16s – that is Labour’s promise to rail passengers if elected.

An across-the-board 33 per cent cut in regulated fares would take effect from January 2020 – replacing the planned 2.7 per cent increase announced by train operators.

In addition, a crucial change in pricing for rush-hour tickets would see some fares fall by as much as 74 per cent.

[snip]

Andy McDonald, the shadow transport secretary, said Britain has “one of the most complex, exploitative and expensive ticketing systems in the world” as a result of privatisation.

[snip]

His party’s most radical proposal is to cut the cost of single peak fares to one-tenth of the cost of a one-week season ticket. On a journey such as Brighton to London Victoria, the effects would be dramatic.

If implemented as described - examples

Peak single, Melksham to Paddington down from £88.50 to £28.23 (or £18.91)
Peak single, Melksham to Swindon down from £8.60 to £4.26 (or £2.92)
First figure - current peak single.  Second - a tenth of current 7 day season. Third - that will extra 33% off

Will the trains have sufficient peak capacity for extra traffic generated?
Where is the extra income stream to make up the difference?
Who will buy weekly seasons in the future - does this rocket the number of transactions?

Apologies for coming late to this party but in my genealogy project I've been trying to track down a great great grandfather, and its started to get a bit like Captain Ahab and Moby Dick...

I am always very cynical about anything that a politician offers in a manifesto, and more than ever with this one because you cannot just go arouhd reducing rail fares in isolation. If it were to happen (a big IF of course) then what about the Law of Unintended Consequences:

1. Increasing demand. The railways are hardly coping with the demand they've got in the peak at the moment.

2. Potentially even more long distance commuting. In my view (and who knows broadgage might agree with me ) commuting is the elephant in the room when looked at in relation to CO2 emmissions. When I was a kid, nobody commuted much further than from the suburbs to the centre of the same town or city. I spent a working life deliberately not commuting - the longest commute I ever had only happened between April and December 1980 between Chipping Sodbury and Chippenham, and then only because it took that long to sell one house amd buy another closer to my new job. When my employer changed its base in Chippenham in 1997 my commuting time quadrupled - from two minutes to eight...

3. If long-distance commuting did increase we may see an increasing number of pleasant market towns and villages turning into ghost towns during the day as most of the working age population clears off for the day. This would also probably see increasing house prices in those towns and villages, and yet more pricing younger people out of the housing market. These people also have a habit of driving to stations - more pollution then...

3. Are employers going to be as "generous" with future pay rises if they know their staff's travel to work costs have gone down by a third?

There is an old joke/ wry comment in my extended neck of the woods. "At 8am every weekday, half the population of Cheltenham get in their cars and commute to Gloucester. At the same time, half the population of Gloucester get in their cars and commute to Cheltenham."

What are we doing it for???

[Red Squirrel]

North Somerset - Conservative, strong majority

That's an interesting one, grahame.

In terms of the current MP^▸ (Member of Parliament), Dr Liam Fox: he is indeed in a secure seat.

However, in our recent local council elections, the Conservatives were absolutely annihilated - the deputy leader even lost his seat (to spend more time with his helicopters, perhaps) and there is not one Conservative on the new executive. 

The impetus to restore the Portishead branch line to passenger service must be maintained, however. 

I've seen the opinion polls, and I think I know how this election is going to pan out (more or less) - but something rather surprised me today. I drove along the A370 from Weston to Bristol, looking out for political signs and posters. I'd normally expect to see dozens of 'Vote Conservative' signs here, but I saw none at all; just two Lib Dem signs and an EU^» (European Union - about) flag.

Interesting times.

[grahame]

I've seen the opinion polls, and I think I know how this election is going to pan out (more or less) - but something rather surprised me today. I drove along the A370 from Weston to Bristol, looking out for political signs and posters. I'd normally expect to see dozens of 'Vote Conservative' signs here, but I saw none at all; just two Lib Dem signs and an EU^» (European Union - about) flag.

Interesting times.

I offer you some suggestions

a) I've heard suggestions that the Conservatives aren't pushing to get lots of posters out there in order to show their core voters that they need to vote - that the election is not a foregone conclusion

b) as an alternative, I've heard there might be a last week short / sharp postering campaign to help surge the Tory vote

c) You need to be far braver in this election than in previous ones to put up a sign.  We put one up and have been vandalised for the first time in 20 years in Melksham.  At first we thought "local twits" but then others reported vandalism too - similar 'signature' and a long way from being on someone's way home from the pub!

d) Many families are split and can't agree within their household