Bristol Underground System proposals - merged posts

[whole diary]

[Red Squirrel]

What about option C - build an elevated monorail?

You mean an elevated maglev monorail..?

[TonyK]

Not entirely, if you bear in mind that some of the traffic it would interfere with – particularly during construction – would be buses, cycles and pedestrians.

Good thinking if we have those interesting boring machines on the go, less so if cut and cover is the preferred option. A friend told me that he lived in Newcastle during the construction of the underground tunnels, remembering it as chaos for three years, with new holes opening to replace finished ones. Even bored tunnels need shafts for access and stations. Nottingham city centre was a mess while the tram tracks were laid and Bristol was whilst the Temple Gate Gyratory was finally mended. Whatever option ends up being chosen is going to cause pockets of chaos while under construction, so we should choose carefully, and remember that whenever one demands that a council "does something", there is always the risk that it might just do that.You can't break a few eggs without making an omelette.

[johnneyw]

What about option C - build an elevated monorail?

It would be interesting to know how elevated sections compare in cost and disruption to the tunneling option. Of course you can mix both along different sections of lines where one option is more suited than the other. Also, as a personal observation, elevated rail in an urban setting tends to look quite cool!

[grahame]

... those interesting boring machines ...

Please - are they interesting, or are they boring?

[Red Squirrel]

You can't break a few eggs without making an omelette.

Ah, Tony, if you'd lived in Bristol for as long as I had you'd know that its City Fathers are more than capable of breaking eggs without ever coming close to anything that resembles an omelette. Remember the 550 houses they knocked down in Totterdown for the Outer Circuit Road? Actually, for that matter, remember the Outer Circuit Road?

Not that I'm a big fan of urban motorway omelettes, you understand...

By my reckoning, incidentally you'd have to knock down about 20 houses to make a through route of the Bristol and North Somerset railway to Radstock. Odd, isn't it, that we consider that impossible?

[froome]

Underground Bristol is, of course, full of old mine shafts, with the tunnels from the East Bristol and South Bristol coalfields meeting right under Temple Meads station. That should offer both opportunities and challenges for an underground system to be developed.

[Bmblbzzz]

I remember the Inner Circuit Road but don't think I've ever heard of the Outer Circuit Road.

[Red Squirrel]

Here's a map I drew for a Wikipedia article about road schemes in Bristol. Apologies for my wobbly cartography! The red line is the inner circuit road; the blue line is the outer circuit and the grey lines are arterial links. Only the section from the M32 to Lawrence Hill was completed, though large areas along its route were blighted. If you want to try to imagine the vision, picture a 6-lane motorway from Clifton to the M32... the grade-separated interchange at Queens Road would have been a particular highlight.

[TonyK]

You can't break a few eggs without making an omelette.

Ah, Tony, if you'd lived in Bristol for as long as I had you'd know that its City Fathers are more than capable of breaking eggs without ever coming close to anything that resembles an omelette. Remember the 550 houses they knocked down in Totterdown for the Outer Circuit Road? Actually, for that matter, remember the Outer Circuit Road?

Not that I'm a big fan of urban motorway omelettes, you understand...

By my reckoning, incidentally you'd have to knock down about 20 houses to make a through route of the Bristol and North Somerset railway to Radstock. Odd, isn't it, that we consider that impossible?

And I agree entirely. More than that was CPO'd and demolished for Metrolink in Manchester, including a funeral parlour and a Baptist church in Oldham. Houses in the way were bought as soon as the authorisation to build came through, by negotiation I believe, and were then rented on short-term lets to people on the housing list. The Baptists got a nice new church, and there have been no complaints from the customers at the funeral parlour. Nor from anyone else for that matter.

[Bmblbzzz]

So just about the only part of the OCR actually built was Easton Way and St Philip's Causeway? I understand the elevated section of the latter is now facing major works or potential demolition due to weakening concrete. Guess that was intended to be a flyover over not quite Nugent Hill, or were they actually going to demolish Kingsdown? (best not to know, sometimes)

[TonyK]

So just about the only part of the OCR actually built was Easton Way and St Philip's Causeway? I understand the elevated section of the latter is now facing major works or potential demolition due to weakening concrete.

I didn't know that. It used to be my route to work, and by coincidence, while in Bristol yesterday, I almost went over it to drop in on a former neighbour. Almost, because from traffic from Lawrence Hill was at a standstill at 4pm. I didn't bother. If that has to close for any length of time, or even have a lane closed, the effect on Bath Road and the few rat runs by the Netham Road bridge will be awful.

[Red Squirrel]

St Philip's Causeway isn't part of the OCR; it was built ten or so years after the OCR plan was abandoned. The first couple of hundred metres of its northern end use the planned alignment of the Lawrence Hill - Totterdown leg, but after that it swings well to the east of the OCR route.

There are other bits and pieces if you know where to look:

The section of St John's Lane between Wells Road and St Luke's Road;
The bit of dual carriageway where Jacobs Wells Road meets the Triangle was a link road;
Sheene Road, and the odd road layout to the south of the railway.

The large area to the east of the A38 in Bedminster is still blighted by the planned elevated dual carriageway which was to connect to the A38 near Parson Street. This was not part of the OCR but is sort of related.

[froome]

St Philip's Causeway isn't part of the OCR; it was built ten or so years after the OCR plan was abandoned. The first couple of hundred metres of its northern end use the planned alignment of the Lawrence Hill - Totterdown leg, but after that it swings well to the east of the OCR route.

St Philip's Causeway was planned and bulldozed through by the Bristol Development Corporation, which the Government of the time foisted onto the local community with the specific intention and getting this road built. It was not supported by the local authorities or much of the local populace at the time. The BDC had no democratic structure, so there was no way to effectively oppose their plans short of direct action, and was wound up as soon as the desired goal (the Spine Road) was built.

[TonyK]

Ah, Tony, if you'd lived in Bristol for as long as I had you'd know that its City Fathers are more than capable of breaking eggs without ever coming close to anything that resembles an omelette. Remember the 550 houses they knocked down in Totterdown for the Outer Circuit Road? Actually, for that matter, remember the Outer Circuit Road?

41 years? I remember the last couple of houses to be knocked down in Totterdown. I slept in one of them, then derelict, during my aimless meandering around this and other countries around 1973.
I also seem to recall signs for the outer circuit road, but not the actual road. I was not motorised in Bristol until 1979, so can presumably be forgiven.

[Red Squirrel]

I'll take your 41 and raise you 19.