TfL Fares & Payment Methods: London - Reading from 15 Dec 2019

[whole diary]

[didcotdean]

(Could have put this in at least 2 other places but finally settled here as it is about fares most particularly.)

Some clarity now on the fares situation on TfL^» (Transport for London - about) Rail London - Reading services provided by this Crossrail (?) Press Release.

In particular:

• Oyster^▸ (Smartcard system used by passengers on Transport for London services) will not be accepted for journeys outside of the current Zone 6 boundaries (ie beyond West Drayton) but contactless cards will.
  
• The Freedom Pass confirmed as being accepted for free journeys all the way to Reading.
• Similarly from TfL policy free journeys for those under 11.
• TfL expects that GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway) will also offer pay as you go with contactless on their services from 2 January 2020. Do GWR?
• Implication that the TfL and GWR fares could potentially drift apart after 2/1/2020, although will be the same until then.

Rather a few practical implications wrapped up in there.

[stuving]

Rather a few practical implications wrapped up in there.

How true. Starting with what happens on 15/12/19 - which is nothing:

Between 15 December 2019 and 2 January 2020, existing ticketing arrangements will apply and TfL^» (Transport for London - about) Rail fares will remain at the same price as the current GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway) fares.

The implication there, and in some other aspects (like freedom pass holders and free kids) is that the station barriers will know what train you used. Somehow. Or perhaps something else.

There are some footnotes, which cover the stopping pattern:

• During the peak, four trains per hour will run between Paddington mainline and Reading. Trains will call at all stations between Reading and Hayes & Harlington, Southall, Ealing Broadway and Paddington.
• During the off-peak, two trains per hour will run between Paddington mainline and Reading. Trains will call at all stations between Reading and Hayes & Harlington, Southall, Ealing Broadway and Paddington.
• Services from Reading will not call at West Ealing, Hanwell and Acton Main Line.

Plus some puzzling ones...

• Since contactless payments on Tube and rail services in London launched in September 2014, TfL has seen contactless cards from more than 130 countries from around the world used on the system.
• (of Reading-Paddington) Pay as you go already available and available separately see fares at https://tfl.gov.uk/fares/find-fares/tube-and-rail-fares/single-fare-finder

I know what Oyster^▸ (Smartcard system used by passengers on Transport for London services) pay-as-you-go means, and something of the subtle differences between Oyster card and contactless functionaility. I don't think "pay-as-you-go" for the line out to Reading necessarily means the same thing - nor what it will mean (when that's been decided).

[ChrisB]

How much is the anytime single from Reading to PAD^» (Paddington (London) - next trains) now?

Don’t the GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway) ticket machines and ticket offices take contactless? So nothing new I can see.

I would sincerely hope that Crossrail/TfL^» (Transport for London - about) will compete in fares next year. But I’m not confident for the reason already mentioned that the ticket gates can’t determine what train you will board

[stuving]

Don’t the GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway) ticket machines and ticket offices take contactless? So nothing new I can see.

But just waving your card near a barrier is different.

[ChrisB]

Can’t see that working....next stop, PNZ!

[didcotdean]

Some more details available in the documentation supporting TfL^» (Transport for London - about) fares for 2020 here, in particular Annex B and D. A few points:

• As well as the technical issues with Oyster^▸ (Smartcard system used by passengers on Transport for London services) zones, it seems the issue of revenue loss by people potentially touching out with large negative balances that never get paid was a significant part of the decision not to allow Oyster use beyond West Drayton.
• A new card is envisaged at some stage that would enable a fuller range  loading of railcard concessions onto it. (Although it is difficult to see how those involving more than one person could work on this.)
• It is a statutory requirement on TfL to operate a uniform scheme on all its rail services within and in the vicinity of London. This would by precedent have only been as far as Slough, paid for by the boroughs. Extending this to Reading will come out of TfLs own budgets. Similarly for the TfL concessions for wounded veterans, armed forces personnel and Olympic athletes.
• All fares on the new TfL Rail service for journeys wholly or partly beyond Zone 6 are common and inter-available with those on the adjacent GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway) service and are set subject to guidance from the DfT^» (Department for Transport - about) (as agreed 10 years ago!).   So no possibility of two-tiering of fares, although this doesn't extend to time restrictions (?).

[Reading General]

So there will possibly be two competing services running on the same line at similar frequencies rather than an improvement in frequency with the two companies sharing the line? I’m still confused This all seems enormously open to abuse. People will simply board the first train that arrives regardless of the fare bought, whether they have children under 11 travelling free with them or hold a freedom pass. I think GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway) will be the loser in all of this, after all tfl’s trains can be publicly supported.

[eightf48544]

To add to the complications, the evening GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway) fasts to Slough, Maidenhead, Twyford  will be Peak and are shown in the new GWR timetable in RED.' but they provide the best connections at Maidenhead and Twyford!

Contactless and Freedom passes will not be available on the branches, Windsor, Marlow and Henley. So if you have a freedom pass or under 11 you'll need tickets for the branch.

If you travel Contactless on the mainline and change onto one of the branches where do you tap out?

It's basically a mess. As I've said before Crossrail does not work West of Padd.

[Reading General]

Indeed. All I see is a territory and fare grabbing exercise by london under the perception of a better service. The relief line from Reading will be a source of revenue for london’s transport pot without giving anything back. I can envisage tfl attempting to price GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway) off the relief lines by undercutting them, then raising fares if they move on. As pointed out before tfl are only interested in daily flow towards london not travel on the greater national network to elsewhere, so what happens to the Thames branches doesn’t bother them. The governments view appears to be the same. For those going to various points in London, I’m sure joining crossrail at Paddington station would have been more than adequate. Perhaps I’m mistaken but it seems odd that none of these things are questioned or have any answers yet.

[ChrisB]

If you travel Contactless on the mainline and change onto one of the branches where do you tap out?

At the station of change onto the Branch.
As well as buying a ticket for the branch travel, unless pre-purchased on the app or at a ticket office in advance.

A total mess.

[didcotdean]

Many of the TV branches have a high to/from London flow; as an example I have seen it quoted for Henley to be as much as 85%. Now I guess an overwhelming majority of these might have season tickets, but to deploy a disjointed PAYG^▸ (Pay as you go) contactless mechanism, whoever is operating what part of the journey is not a step forward. Now Oyster^▸ (Smartcard system used by passengers on Transport for London services) is out of the picture there is no real justification for this even at the technical level.

[Reading General]

Many of the TV branches have a high to/from London flow; as an example I have seen it quoted for Henley to be as much as 85%.

I’m sure this is probably true, but now more than ever we need options open to go all directions and Tfl, or private rail companies like GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway) for that matter, don’t want to run trains that do that. The former Henley branch train that was hourly from Reading (General) used to be very popular when I used it in the 1990’s. Now I think the bus is the more popular between the two points. I get why the change happened but the point is that rail travel should be promoted regionally and nationally, not just for journeys to london, even if it is the majority heading there.

For speculation, I wonder what the service and fares would be like if the tunnel matched the national network and it was GWR running trains to Shenfield (wherever the hell that is).

[paul7575]

Many of the TV branches have a high to/from London flow; as an example I have seen it quoted for Henley to be as much as 85%.

I’m sure this is probably true, but now more than ever we need options open to go all directions and Tfl, or private rail companies like GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway) for that matter, don’t want to run trains that do that. The former Henley branch train that was hourly from Reading (General) used to be very popular when I used it in the 1990’s. Now I think the bus is the more popular between the two points. I get why the change happened but the point is that rail travel should be promoted regionally and nationally, not just for journeys to london, even if it is the majority heading there.

For speculation, I wonder what the service and fares would be like if the tunnel matched the national network and it was GWR running trains to Shenfield (wherever the hell that is).

IIRC^▸ (if I recall/remember/read correctly) the Crossrail Act required that the fares from both Shenfield and Reading to London had to stay “as they were”, ie set by the TOCs^▸ (Train Operating Company) rather than TfL^» (Transport for London - about), so has that changed?

Paul

[grahame]

I get why the change happened but the point is that rail travel should be promoted regionally and nationally, not just for journeys to london, even if it is the majority heading there.

The current changes are all about journeys to London, I'm afraid.  Chris Heaton-Harris told us that at the GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway) Stakeholder meeting - it's on more and faster journeys that the investment's based. 

From Henley, yes, I suspect London is the most popular destination. 

Further out, where London is NOT the most popular destination (in passenger numbers), it has still been prioritised over other services to the extent of having them pulled back / made less good.   It is, though, likely that London generates the most income even from those further out points - Chippenham return to London, peak, £178 - and up from 2 to 3 trains in the peak hour; Chippenham return to Swindon, peak, £10.20 - gap between peak services up from 23 minutes to 41 minutes.

Only when you get out to Devon and Cornwall does the magnetism of London reduce, and there we see some very welcome local service improvements on trains within the SubNational Region.  Of course whether that's a factor just of distance, or also because of the excellent thinking they do down there about what they need, I couldn't say!

[stuving]

IIRC^▸ (if I recall/remember/read correctly) the Crossrail Act required that the fares from both Shenfield and Reading to London had to stay “as they were”, ie set by the TOCs^▸ (Train Operating Company) rather than TfL^» (Transport for London - about), so has that changed?

Paul

If you look at the TfL fares document didcotdean linked to, it explains a lot of this (sort  of - keep your mud filter handy). This is the relevant statement:

Fares for journeys wholly or partly beyond Zone 6 on the new TfL Rail service to Reading
All fares on the new TfL Rail service for journeys wholly or partly beyond Zone 6 are common and inter-available with those on the adjacent GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway) service and are set subject to guidance from the DfT^» (Department for Transport - about).
The 2020 fares reflect the 2.8% DfT fares yield target and have been approved by the DfT and the Secretary of State for Transport. Details of the fares will be available on the FGW^▸ (First Great Western) web-site and the TfL single fare finder.

On ex-GA^▸ (Greater Anglia) services it says "The increases shown involving Brentwood and Shenfield reflect TfL’s commitment to keep these fares aligned with those of Greater Anglia." Note that they list PAYG^▸ (Pay as you go) fares on all Liverpool Street lines as "special", though I think they are normal ones out to zone 6. Then they are more than normal fares in zones 7 (Theobalds Grove and Waltham Cross), 8 (Cheshunt), and 8 (Brentwood). Shenfield is extra-zonal and they don't give its fares, though CPAY and Oyster^▸ (Smartcard system used by passengers on Transport for London services) both work there (the current peak PAYG fare is actually £9.60).

While zone 7/8/9 fares on other lines are held, the caps for those zones have increased in line with RSP/DfT ones - presumably because the caps are defined by zone and can't be varied by line like the fares.

TfL also list slightly higher TOC fares, which I think are those used by PAYG on TOC trains where TfL don't operate too. It's not obvious what should happen where there are TfL trains but on a different line, but at Richmond (for example) the SWR^» (South Western Railway - about) fare to Waterloo is a TfL zone 1-4 one,  while from Raynes Park it's a TOC fare.

The fares charged by GA and GWR (out to H&H) along the same route as TfL Rail are higher still, and I can't see any off-peak fares.

The place where TfL are (already) struggling to square more than on circle at once is Heathrow. The fare to Paddington is a special high one and has risen, but there is also a TfL fare to zone 1 that is higher (£12.10). They have put Heathrow in zone 6 so it gets capping at £12.80! (A peak zone 1-6 is usually £5.10).