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Author Topic: Hot weather warning 25th July 2019  (Read 13272 times)
Timmer
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« Reply #15 on: July 25, 2019, 17:29:31 »

Well compared to the WCML (West Coast Main Line), MML» (Midland Main Line. - about) and ECML (East Coast Main Line) lines where little to nothing is running, the GWML (Great Western Main Line) appears to be coping well.
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stuving
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« Reply #16 on: July 25, 2019, 18:03:34 »

Well compared to the WCML (West Coast Main Line), MML» (Midland Main Line. - about) and ECML (East Coast Main Line) lines where little to nothing is running, the GWML (Great Western Main Line) appears to be coping well.

The major disruptions now are reported as OLE (Overhead Line Equipment, more often "OHLE") failures, with more than one case of broken wires and trackside fires - Peterborough, St Albans, West Hampstead, Birmingham (more than one), and perhaps some of the multiple issues on GA (Greater Anglia). That does sound like loss of tension due to heat expansion and the tensioner running out of travel (i.e. the weights hit the floor).

I don't think I have ever heard NR» (Network Rail - home page) say that was a real issue here, while SNCF (Societe Nationale des Chemins de fer Francais - French National Railways) have always included it in their warnings about disruption in hot weather. The new OLE GWR (Great Western Railway) have ought not to suffer that problem ... you'd hope. 
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« Reply #17 on: July 25, 2019, 18:05:27 »

Our new OHLE is ugly, but very resilient!
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« Reply #18 on: July 25, 2019, 18:17:02 »

Our new OHLE is ugly, but very resilient!

In the case of drop weights, you can measure the drop, count the turns, and work out the temperature range for a given wire run length. For a Tensorex, it's not so obvious, but it still can only cope with a certain expansion length. Presumably that's enough for what was foreseen by the designers about ten years ago, plus a safety margin. The only other question is whether they were all set up right - I think that can be checked visually, though I don't have the details.
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Oxonhutch
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« Reply #19 on: July 25, 2019, 18:38:09 »

Our new OHLE is ugly, but very resilient!
Yes, I saw a large strip of builder's plastic sheeting wrapped around catenary supports on line CDL1 into Paddington.  I see on OTT (Open Train Times website) it is marked as shut between SN117 and SN94.  Would have caused a lot more disruption had it affected the 6 main running lines.  Still had huge delays at Reading with two down locals cancelled and the third nearly 20 minutes late.
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grahame
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« Reply #20 on: July 25, 2019, 19:33:06 »

[If/When] the UK (United Kingdom) is a tropical country, routinely with many days over 35 degrees C, then there will/should be investment to ensure complete running on those days without weather related stoppages.  But if it's just one day in a blue moon, is it sensible to invest /more pragramic to say "we'll run slower that day".

I've seen many historic pictures of snowploughs going through deep drifts on UK railways, and some spectacular overseas videos of current operations.   But these days, I can't think of where a snowplough is kept locally, waiting for use if need be. Occasionally frustrating such as March of last year where there was a lag of days getting (just) the TransWilts re-opened after bad weather, but it the big measure of things ...

Of course, the big measure might be that this becomes a routine type of weather ...
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Robin Summerhill
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« Reply #21 on: July 25, 2019, 19:51:10 »

[If/When] the UK (United Kingdom) is a tropical country, routinely with many days over 35 degrees C, then there will/should be investment to ensure complete running on those days without weather related stoppages.  But if it's just one day in a blue moon, is it sensible to invest /more pragramic to say "we'll run slower that day".

I've seen many historic pictures of snowploughs going through deep drifts on UK railways...

The S&D (Somerset and Dorset Joint Railway) was in quite a mess in the winter of 1962/63 (when I was 10!) so I remember it well!

Something else I remember was that Bristol Corporation (as the City Council were called then) were seriously hauled over the coals about their lack of snow clearing equipment when that heavy snow struck on Boxing Day 1962. We had 10" of the stuff in our front garden and it more or less stayed there until March. As a result of the criticism the Corporation spent a huge amount of money investing in the latest state-of-the-art snowploughs and ancillary equipment.

It sat unused in their Albert Road depotfor 19 years and was finally scrapped in 1981.

Can you guess what happened in the winter of 1982?  Grin
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broadgage
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« Reply #22 on: July 25, 2019, 20:08:52 »

I am a bit more forgiving of snow/ice induced chaos*, because a warming climate suggests that the problem will become steadily less serious as the years go past.

Heat related problems are much more important in my view, because without significant mitigation action, they will get worse and worse.
And whilst OHLE in the GWR (Great Western Railway) area looks re-assuringly robust, this wont help if the wires expand and sag in hot weather. As more of the GWR network is eventually electrified we have large scale OHLE failures to look forward to.
Survival of the nice solid supports is little consolation if the wires attached thereto have fallen down.

Early on in the sorry IET (Intercity Express Train) saga, I expressed doubts as to the reliability of the units in hot weather. A supporter of the new DMUs (Diesel Multiple Unit) felt that I was unduly negative over this and pointed out that reliable operation at, IIRC (if I recall/remember/read correctly) 32 degrees was an "essential requirement"
I speculated as to what happens at 40 degrees, this was said to needless speculation as it "wont get that hot" Well today we found out what happens at nearly 40 degrees (met office) and almost certainly well over 40 degrees at engine height, in a cutting, and with another unit alongside.
Over a dozen short formations DESPITE numerous cancellations that SHOULD have resulted in plenty of spare units.

*Thinking of the Lewisham debacle and the appalling conditions suffered by victims of the "keep them on the trains no matter what" policy, I feel that much more robust plans are needed for speedy rescue in such cases. Might never be needed for a COLD weather emergency, but will certainly be needed for the next HOT weather stranding.
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A proper intercity train has a minimum of 8 coaches, gangwayed throughout, with first at one end, and a full sized buffet car between first and standard.
It has space for cycles, surfboards,luggage etc.
A 5 car DMU (Diesel Multiple Unit) is not a proper inter-city train. The 5+5 and 9 car DMUs are almost as bad.
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« Reply #23 on: July 25, 2019, 20:49:12 »

It is important not to make knee-jerk reactions just because things go belly up on one occasion. That is why I posted the off-topic story about Bristol Corporation to illustrate the point - they wasted huge sums of money on a knee-jerk reaction and Bristol ratepayers may well still be paying off the loans now. I would certainly have been when I was a Bristol ratepayer in the 1970s.

If we are going to get 40 degree temperatures once every 40 years then nothing needs to be spent. Even if we get them once a year I doubt that the money needs to be spent. If we ever get then once a week during the summer then clearly the money ought to have been spent by now.

At the moment we simply don't know if we need to spend the money or not. At present we should be monitoring the situation, and spend the money if and when it clearly needs to be spent.
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JayMac
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« Reply #24 on: July 25, 2019, 21:10:08 »

So, the all time temperature record wasn't beaten after all.

Global warming? Pah! Tongue
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« Reply #25 on: July 25, 2019, 22:35:14 »

GWR (Great Western Railway) have been not to shabby when it comes to communications today, however, LNER» (London North Eastern Railway - about) were much better than every TOC (Train Operating Company). At about 17:00 yesterday evening, they had lifted ticket restrictions for services today to be used on Friday, Saturday or Sunday services. They also said how they were certain they’d be unable to run a decent service in the afternoon and issued plenty of updates.

You have to remember that the tracks are about 10 degrees celsius hotter than the air temperature, and once the track hits 40 degrees it can cause second degree burns, hence why Network Rail we’re struggling to work on at Gloucester. I would like to talk NR» (Network Rail - home page) engineers for working in these terrible conditions to return service to normal, on time.

Anyways, enjoying the lovely sound of rain through the window as it cools down and the worst of it is over.
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Clan Line
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« Reply #26 on: July 25, 2019, 22:38:35 »

Our new OHLE is ugly, but very resilient!

I think I have fathomed out the real reason for the huge amount of metalwork for the OHLE. When they decide that Brunel's GWR (Great Western Railway) no longer has the "capacity", they won't have to widen/relay the existing track - two new lines can just be laid above the existing track supported by the ironwork that is already there. Simples !
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« Reply #27 on: July 26, 2019, 01:09:28 »

I am a bit more forgiving of snow/ice induced chaos*, because a warming climate suggests that the problem will become steadily less serious as the years go past.

Heat related problems are much more important in my view, because without significant mitigation action, they will get worse and worse.
And whilst OHLE in the GWR (Great Western Railway) area looks re-assuringly robust, this wont help if the wires expand and sag in hot weather. As more of the GWR network is eventually electrified we have large scale OHLE failures to look forward to.
Survival of the nice solid supports is little consolation if the wires attached thereto have fallen down.

Early on in the sorry IET (Intercity Express Train) saga, I expressed doubts as to the reliability of the units in hot weather. A supporter of the new DMUs (Diesel Multiple Unit) felt that I was unduly negative over this and pointed out that reliable operation at, IIRC (if I recall/remember/read correctly) 32 degrees was an "essential requirement"
I speculated as to what happens at 40 degrees, this was said to needless speculation as it "wont get that hot" Well today we found out what happens at nearly 40 degrees (met office) and almost certainly well over 40 degrees at engine height, in a cutting, and with another unit alongside.
Over a dozen short formations DESPITE numerous cancellations that SHOULD have resulted in plenty of spare units.

Anyone would think the IETs were the only trains to have any heat related problems today!  In reality they performed reasonably well, given recent issues with engine reliability, and suffered the same displacement issues due to speed restrictions as anything else on the GWR network - which it seems held up better than any other long distance route out of London on the second hottest day ever recorded.  I see a HST (High Speed Train) had to be evacuated near Peterborough.

Another textbook case of confirmation bias from Broadgage.  Wink
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« Reply #28 on: July 26, 2019, 01:41:35 »

Not so much confirmation bias, as pointing out the failures of a newish and hugely expensive train that was touted as being so much better than previous trains.
Also another victory for my crystal ball which specifically forecast overheating, not based on any detailed analysis but on previous experience with other new DMUs (Diesel Multiple Unit) in hot weather.
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A proper intercity train has a minimum of 8 coaches, gangwayed throughout, with first at one end, and a full sized buffet car between first and standard.
It has space for cycles, surfboards,luggage etc.
A 5 car DMU (Diesel Multiple Unit) is not a proper inter-city train. The 5+5 and 9 car DMUs are almost as bad.
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« Reply #29 on: July 26, 2019, 04:52:22 »

Not so much confirmation bias, as pointing out the failures of a newish and hugely expensive train that was touted as being so much better than previous trains.
Also another victory for my crystal ball which specifically forecast overheating, not based on any detailed analysis but on previous experience with other new DMUs (Diesel Multiple Unit) in hot weather.

Hmmm, a reply that sounds to me like....{drum roll}....confirmation bias Grin

Don’t forget that HSTs (High Speed Train) we’re always suffering from high water temperature in exceptionally hot weather, especially before being re-engined.
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