Overchecking of tickets - on train and at arriving station.

[whole diary]

[Bmblbzzz]

If I travel from here to Cheltenham via Bristol, I put my ticket into the Gateline at Chippenham. I may get my ticket checked by GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway) staff on the train to Bristol, especially if its in the peak, and if I go outside for a fag break at Bristol it gets checked twice more, and one of those won't operate the Gateline because of the built-in time delay. The XC^▸ (Cross Country Trains (franchise)) TM^‡(resolve) on the Brum train will want to check my ticket too, and when I get to Cheltenham, it goes into a Gateline again. That sounds like at least four, and possibly up to six, ticket checks to me, at least one more than the people on your train "suffered." Quite probably many of them who joined at unstaffed stations between Frome and Weymouth only got theirs checked twice; once on the train, and once by the RPOs at Weymouth.

Good point but in terms of "feel", I don't think putting your ticket in a gateline feels the same as having it checked by a person. That said, I'm not sure there is a problem here, other than the slight delay to passengers leaving at Weymouth.

[TaplowGreen]

If I travel from here to Cheltenham via Bristol, I put my ticket into the Gateline at Chippenham. I may get my ticket checked by GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway) staff on the train to Bristol, especially if its in the peak, and if I go outside for a fag break at Bristol it gets checked twice more, and one of those won't operate the Gateline because of the built-in time delay. The XC^▸ (Cross Country Trains (franchise)) TM^‡(resolve) on the Brum train will want to check my ticket too, and when I get to Cheltenham, it goes into a Gateline again. That sounds like at least four, and possibly up to six, ticket checks to me, at least one more than the people on your train "suffered." Quite probably many of them who joined at unstaffed stations between Frome and Weymouth only got theirs checked twice; once on the train, and once by the RPOs at Weymouth.

Good point but in terms of "feel", I don't think putting your ticket in a gateline feels the same as having it checked by a person. That said, I'm not sure there is a problem here, other than the slight delay to passengers leaving at Weymouth.

Why not just install ticket barriers at Weymouth?

[PhilWakely]

If I travel from here to Cheltenham via Bristol, I put my ticket into the Gateline at Chippenham. I may get my ticket checked by GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway) staff on the train to Bristol, especially if its in the peak, and if I go outside for a fag break at Bristol it gets checked twice more, and one of those won't operate the Gateline because of the built-in time delay. The XC^▸ (Cross Country Trains (franchise)) TM^‡(resolve) on the Brum train will want to check my ticket too, and when I get to Cheltenham, it goes into a Gateline again. That sounds like at least four, and possibly up to six, ticket checks to me, at least one more than the people on your train "suffered." Quite probably many of them who joined at unstaffed stations between Frome and Weymouth only got theirs checked twice; once on the train, and once by the RPOs at Weymouth.

Good point but in terms of "feel", I don't think putting your ticket in a gateline feels the same as having it checked by a person. That said, I'm not sure there is a problem here, other than the slight delay to passengers leaving at Weymouth.

Why not just install ticket barriers at Weymouth?

Ticket barriers and/or manual checks - there are a number of ways an apparently valid ticket can be used fraudulently [peak v off-peak; child v adult; part-journey; Advance on wrong train, etc] Personally, it is nothing more than a minor inconvenience to have my ticket 'properly' checked multiple times on my journey

[TaplowGreen]

If I travel from here to Cheltenham via Bristol, I put my ticket into the Gateline at Chippenham. I may get my ticket checked by GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway) staff on the train to Bristol, especially if its in the peak, and if I go outside for a fag break at Bristol it gets checked twice more, and one of those won't operate the Gateline because of the built-in time delay. The XC^▸ (Cross Country Trains (franchise)) TM^‡(resolve) on the Brum train will want to check my ticket too, and when I get to Cheltenham, it goes into a Gateline again. That sounds like at least four, and possibly up to six, ticket checks to me, at least one more than the people on your train "suffered." Quite probably many of them who joined at unstaffed stations between Frome and Weymouth only got theirs checked twice; once on the train, and once by the RPOs at Weymouth.

Good point but in terms of "feel", I don't think putting your ticket in a gateline feels the same as having it checked by a person. That said, I'm not sure there is a problem here, other than the slight delay to passengers leaving at Weymouth.

Why not just install ticket barriers at Weymouth?

Ticket barriers and/or manual checks - there are a number of ways an apparently valid ticket can be used fraudulently [peak v off-peak; child v adult; part-journey; Advance on wrong train, etc] Personally, it is nothing more than a minor inconvenience to have my ticket 'properly' checked multiple times on my journey

I'm beginning to think some people consciously enjoy it! 🙂

[PhilWakely]

Another perfectly valid reason for multiple checks on a single journey is the relatively new phenomenon of split-ticketing. I have heard anecdotal evidence [but not seen definite evidence] of some pax having just two of several tickets checked [start and end] and then claiming refunds on the unchecked tickets. Unlikely to happen on a Melksham to Weymouth ticket, but consider, say, a Paignton to Stafford journey.

[grahame]

Why not just install ticket barriers at Weymouth?

There would be sense in that.  There might be sense in doing that for the SWR^» (South Western Railway - about) station (that's platforms 2 and 3) and not for the GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway) station (that's platform 1).  GWR trains are typically fully checked by the train manager. SWR trains are (I don't think) fully checked in the same way.

So where's the problem in the system, and what would you do to "sort it out?"

See above for a suggestion.  And also look to the experts to help us work out further system improvement suggestions.

I feel your bringing up the Belmont Pullman is a complete red herring.

Others (not yourself I don't think, Robin) suggested that all trains irrespective of the operator running them, should have all their passengers checked at a block. ALL trains, you note. So (I agree with you) it's very unlikely that anyone would have arrived unticketed on that train - but never the less others are suggesting that all eleven carriages of people should have queued for inspection via the couple of active checkers.

[bradbrka]

Is the real problem that the ticket check was not properly resourced for the number of passengers arriving on that service, not that the check took place?

[Robin Summerhill]

...I don't think putting your ticket in a gateline feels the same as having it checked by a person. That said, I'm not sure there is a problem here, other than the slight delay to passengers leaving at Weymouth.

Feel is I suppose another word for perception in this case. And people's perceptions can vary. For example, I was recently on a Paddington-bound train when the TM^‡(resolve) came along to check tickets (we were passing Dauntsey in case anyone is interested!). The bloke in the seats in front of me presented his ticket and the TM asked to see his Disabled Person's Railcard.

The conversation then got heated on one side. Raising his voice the passenger said "Can't you see I'm disabled?" To which the TM replied "But I still need to see your railcard Sir." Then came the reply "I'm being victimised - because I'm disabled"!

We may all have differing views about this, but mine are that yes it was pretty obvious that he was disabled, but that in itself doesn't entitle him to a third off the normal fare. Buying s disabled person's railcard entitles him to the reduction, and him being disabled entitles him to apply for the railcard. The issue the TM was dealing with was ensuring that the guy had purchased the railcard, not whether or not he was disabled.

Was he being victimised? The hell he was... But that didn't stop him perceiving victimisation where none was present.

Perception may not always come up with the correct answer.

[Bmblbzzz]

Or did he just not have a card and was bluffing it?

[Fourbee]

The issue the TM^‡(resolve) was dealing with was ensuring that the guy had purchased the railcard, not whether or not he was disabled.

I always present my railcard with my ticket, saves any embarrassment all round.

[Robin Summerhill]

The issue the TM^‡(resolve) was dealing with was ensuring that the guy had purchased the railcard, not whether or not he was disabled.

I always present my railcard with my ticket, saves any embarrassment all round.

Quite. In a similar vein, nobody who knows me or sees me in the street would have any doubt that I am over 60. However, simply being over 60 does not entitle me to reduced rate travel - it entitles me to apply for a railcard and pay for it and then get reduced rate travel.

If I was ovr 60 and hadn't bothered to get a Senior Railcard then I have to pay full whack for my ticket. The same goes for disabled people.

[Robin Summerhill]

Is the real problem that the ticket check was not properly resourced for the number of passengers arriving on that service, not that the check took place?

I would have some sympathy with that view. However, perhaps "having to wait to have their ticket checked" need quantifying. It is not uncommon to find a queue at a Gateline - indeed, when I arrived in Huddersfield from Sheffield last year the queue at the Gatelines was so long that I didn't bother going outside for a cigarette and went straight on to Bradford!

So was it a few seconds? A minute? Five minutes (but that seems unlikely)? This will have a bearing on the matter because, leaving to one side the fact that some appear to think they shouldn't have been checked at all.

In other words, there may not have been a problem significant enough to need resolving in the first place.

[JayMac]

There would be sense in that.  There might be sense in doing that for the SWR^» (South Western Railway - about) station (that's platforms 2 and 3) and not for the GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway) station (that's platform 1).  GWR trains are typically fully checked by the train manager. SWR trains are (I don't think) fully checked in the same way.

Since when did Weymouth become two stations? Its one station with three platforms. Services can and do use any platform.

Others (not yourself I don't think, Robin) suggested that all trains irrespective of the operator running them, should have all their passengers checked at a block. ALL trains, you note. So (I agree with you) it's very unlikely that anyone would have arrived unticketed on that train - but never the less others are suggesting that all eleven carriages of people should have queued for inspection via the couple of active checkers.

I think you are being facetious grahame. Merely because I left out the words 'scheduled' or 'service'. You will note however that at gated stations all passengers from charters are expected to wait their turn/queue to enter/exit platforms after showing their authority to travel. I and many others had to do this numerous times when we travelled on the Flying Banana.

I think you've made an unnecessary mountain of a molehill with this moan grahame.

[Bmblbzzz]

With railcards, the TM^‡(resolve)'s response should (presumably) be along the lines that the TM doesn't need to check the passenger's disability/age/etc, just to see their railcard. Aren't they given training in asking this sort of thing?

[Celestial]

I think you've made an unnecessary mountain of a molehill with this moan grahame.

I agree completely. It's hardly an inconvenience to wait a couple of minutes.  And even with a consciencious guard trying to collect fares, the busier the train, the more likely he is to miss someone that looks down as he goes past to avoid paying.  And others may have bought a ticket for only the first part of the journey.

Of all the things we criticise the railway for, this seems to be one of the most minor complaints.