Climate protests in Bristol

[whole diary]

[TaplowGreen]

They were in Plymouth last week, and did one of their ridiculous "die-ins" in the middle of a busy shopping centre. I was proud that the good citizens of my home town just carried on as usual, walking around (and in some cases over) the prostrate "corpses" (whom, it was noted, were mostly equipped with the sort of electronic gadgetry which is itself helping to bleed the World dry)

[chuffed]

My tongue in cheek suggestion about using Boris' water cannons, was not to use them on the protestors, who might object that getting wet might be an infringement of their civil liberties, but instead use the water to dampen down the more noxious emissions from the cars, vans, buses and lorries that are held up by their protests!

[TonyK]

Getting back to normality, I read through the demands in the link provided by my learned friend Red Squirrel, and found that I agreed with one, maybe two, disagreed vehemently with a couple more, thought at least one was impossible, and haven't formed an opinion on the rest.

Except one - the demand to remove the ban on onshore windfarms. This shows they haven't done their homework properly, because there is no ban on new onshore wind power. Government policy since the last election but one has been to allow new wind turbines anywhere in England where they have the support of the local community. The problem faced by the foreign companies who own what is left of our power generation capacity is that they haven't been able to find a rural community that really wants a 300-foot tall bat mincer behind the Saxon church and rows of picturesque (pronounced picture-skew) cottages and tea shops. In the days when the likes of nPower, EDF and the rest were throwing them up as fast as they could, the planning process typically took seven years, it taking that long to be rejected at every level of the system before getting an inspector to give the nod at a Public Inquiry. It wouldn't be worth the effort if the decision lay in the hands of the people who would be affected by it, so they have gone and covered Scotland with them instead. Presumably, then, one of the points of the demonstration is to call for an end to local democracy in rural communities to allow unbridled access by offshore companies?

Also, if I were James Freeman, managing director of First West of England buses, I would take umbrage at having my company's usual advertising format and my name hijacked for a spoof flyer that is likely to be taken as genuine by quite a few people. Not that he can do much about it, I suppose, but I hope there are contingency plans in place to reroute buses, or turn them back outside the Centre rather than just have them all lined up patiently as usually happens.

[phile]

They were in Plymouth last week, and did one of their ridiculous "die-ins" in the middle of a busy shopping centre. I was proud that the good citizens of my home town just carried on as usual, walking around (and in some cases over) the prostrate "corpses" (whom, it was noted, were mostly equipped with the sort of electronic gadgetry which is itself helping to bleed the World dry)

Just kick them out of the way.

[broadgage]

I have considerable sympathy with the aims of the Extinction Rebellion protests.
And as previously discussed, disrupting public transport seems very counter-productive.

A while ago I met some of the protestors in the pub, they were undoubtedly very passionate and committed but not perhaps well informed.
Considerable sympathy with the French "yellow vest" protests was expressed, with calls to work together. The Extinction Rebellion crowd seemed most perplexed when I explained that the French protesters are on "the other side" Two of their demands being cheaper road fuel in order that people can afford to burn more of it, and higher speed limits in order that more French men may can drive further and faster and use yet more fuel.

Many of the Extinction Rebellion supporters seemed ignorant of basic science. I refer here not to differences of opinion but to ignorance of basic physical facts.

[Bmblbzzz]

I wonder if it's basic science the XR^▸ (Crossrail) crowd are ignorant of or other groups' opinions? I haven't spoken to them so I don't know, but maybe they're assuming that because the YVs are protesting against their government, they must have some kinship of demands with the XRs? A conflation of ideas on both sides: government, big capitalism, the military-industrial complex, etc, on one side and "the people" or "the little man" protesting for peace, love and a greener planet on the other. (Similar conflations might have been made eg by Western governments and media at the time of the Arab Spring – and numerous other places and times and people.)

[TonyK]

So far, the only certain discoveries I have made is that they are for mass transit which isn't powered by fossil fuel, but against all-electric HS2^▸ (The next High Speed line(s)). That, and for repealing a ban that has never existed. Apart from those, it all seems a bit vague.

[broadgage]

Some of those whom I met were ignorant of basic science.

1 Several believed that someone has invented a car engine that runs on water and that the wicked oil companies buried the invention and/or murdered the inventor. Nonsense ! basic science shows that water at room temperature contains no useful energy.

2 Others believed that the national grid "loose half of the electricity due to leaks" Nonsense ! the actual losses are about 10% and are a mixture of unavoidable resistance losses in conductors and unavoidable magnetic losses in transformer cores. Together with incidental losses such as energy consumed by pumps, fans, battery chargers, controls, and instruments.

3 And various long standing urban myths regarding electricity in general and key meters in particular.

[IndustryInsider]

Good to see you put those cynics and conspiracy theorists in their place, Broadgage. 

[phile]

Greta has been described as having been brainwashed.

[TonyK]

Greta has been described as having been brainwashed.

I wouldn't know, but as she speaks at least one foreign language, she is probably better educated than the chaps broadgage ran into in the pub.

Some of those whom I met were ignorant of basic science.

1 Several believed that someone has invented a car engine that runs on water and that the wicked oil companies buried the invention and/or murdered the inventor. Nonsense ! basic science shows that water at room temperature contains no useful energy.

2 Others believed that the national grid "loose half of the electricity due to leaks" Nonsense ! the actual losses are about 10% and are a mixture of unavoidable resistance losses in conductors and unavoidable magnetic losses in transformer cores. Together with incidental losses such as energy consumed by pumps, fans, battery chargers, controls, and instruments.

3 And various long standing urban myths regarding electricity in general and key meters in particular.

Once you point out that losses are much lower at higher voltages because that means a lower current and the losses are proportionate to the product of the cross-sectional surface of the conductor and the current as any fule kno, they usually thank you, and move to another table.

I for one like key meters. I mean, if everybody took out dual fuel deals paid by direct debit, and changed suppliers at the end of each tariff deal, I would probably have to pay more.

[TaplowGreen]

I wonder if it's basic science the XR^▸ (Crossrail) crowd are ignorant of or other groups' opinions? I haven't spoken to them so I don't know, but maybe they're assuming that because the YVs are protesting against their government, they must have some kinship of demands with the XRs? A conflation of ideas on both sides: government, big capitalism, the military-industrial complex, etc, on one side and "the people" or "the little man" protesting for peace, love and a greener planet on the other. (Similar conflations might have been made eg by Western governments and media at the time of the Arab Spring – and numerous other places and times and people.)

I should think that "XR" feel quite fortunate that they have the British police to deal with rather than "YV" who have to find the courage to go toe to toe with the CRS.

[Timmer]

Good to see you put those cynics and conspiracy theorists in their place, Broadgage. 

Following this part of the conversation, Broadgage then proceeded to make the case for having of a buffet car on every GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway) IET^▸ (Intercity Express Train).

[ellendune]

basic science shows that water at room temperature contains no useful energy.

[pedantmode=on]
depends what height it is at - Hydro-electricity
[/pedantmode]

[TonyK]

basic science shows that water at room temperature contains no useful energy.

[pedantmode=on]
depends what height it is at - Hydro-electricity
[/pedantmode]

That ellendune has potential!

I should think that "XR^▸ (Crossrail)" feel quite fortunate that they have the British police to deal with rather than "YV" who have to find the courage to go toe to toe with the CRS.

Do I need to put these in the Acronyms/Abbrevs (never liked spelling that one in full) list? If so, should Compagnies Républicaines de Sécurité be in French? Mind you, I've messed with Co-operative Retail Services before, and come to regret it.