Bristol Clean Air Zone proposals

[whole diary]

[Bmblbzzz]

With both York and, more surprisingly, Birmingham putting forward proposals to ban all cars within their city centres, Bristol's diesel ban is beginning to look tame.

[Noggin]

With both York and, more surprisingly, Birmingham putting forward proposals to ban all cars within their city centres, Bristol's diesel ban is beginning to look tame.

But the difference is that both York and Birmingham's are realistic. Because of Bristol's geography and the way the road network was built, the best you could probably do is limit traffic within Temple Way/Anchor Road/Cumberland Road to essential traffic and residents, which will of course do sweet FA for emissions and cut off the (relatively impoverished) South Bristol from North Bristol. It will also make it even more likely that if people want to go shopping, they will drive to Bath or Cribbs Causeway.

[Bmblbzzz]

Define "essential". There aren't that many residents within that area of Bristol and most of the traffic is, I suspect, either commuters, shoppers or passing through on its way to other parts. Precisely the sort of traffic we need to displace and replace.

York's plan is within the city walls. I don't really know York – haven't been there since I was 11(!) (but a trip planned this summer) – but that sounds like a small and tightly defined area. Brum's seems a little vaguer: file:///C:/Users/User/Downloads/Transport_Plan_v7.pdf
but probably there are more definite plans in existence.

[Red Squirrel]

Bmblbzzz's link is to a local file, so won't work. Try this: https://www.birmingham.gov.uk/info/20076/pollution/1763/a_clean_air_zone_for_birmingham/2

[Bmblbzzz]

Sorry! And thank you. What I tried to link to was a pdf which can be downloaded from this site:
https://www.birmingham.gov.uk/transportplan
under the "Download draft Birmingham Transport Plan document" button.

But what Red Squirrel linked to was, despite being older, in some ways more useful in that it included a map. But do note the Eye of Sauron in the draft document! Those Brummies do have a sense of irony.

[eXPassenger]

I see from the BBC^» (British Broadcasting Corporation - home page) that diesel access will now be allowed from the M32 to the Cabot Circus car parks and from the A370 over the Plimsoll Bridge to the A4.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-bristol-51348017

[Bmblbzzz]

But some challenged them over the exemption for Cabot Circus while leaving the BRI^» (Bristol Temple Meads - next trains) and Bristol Royal Children's Hospital affected by the diesel ban.

Conservative councillor Claire Hiscott said: "It just seems a little unfair that perhaps you'll completely protect the shopper but you won't necessarily completely protect the patient or the sick person in the city."

So the council is "protecting" shoppers in Cabot Circus by allowing them to drive their diesel cars from the M32 to the car park? Is that what Claire Hiscott means? Or did she say that arguing for the car park to be taken out of the zone and her quote has been put in a misleading context by the BBC^» (British Broadcasting Corporation - home page)? Or what? 

[Red Squirrel]

Council working on new 'bigger and bolder' alternative to diesel ban and clean air zone

Marvin Rees said it could bring air pollution in Bristol down to within legal levels by the end of 2022

Bristol City Council is working on a ‘bigger and bolder’ alternative to its current plans for a diesel ban and clean air zone (CAZ^▸ (Clean Air Zone)) in the city.

Mayor Marvin Rees said the alternative plans, made possible by the Covid-19 crisis, could hasten the city's progress towards legal compliance with clean air definitions.

He did not spell out details of what was proposed but said it could bring air pollution in Bristol down to within legal levels by the end of 2022.

[...continues]

Source: Bristol Live

The article is rather light on detail and doesn't indicate where or when Mayor Rees said this. I can't find any other reference to it, and Bristol Live's attempts to get more information drew a blank.

Worth noting that the reported 'bigger and bolder' plan brings compliance a whole year earlier than the current one. Rees is still insistent that private car owners should be excluded from the scheme, because he feels that this will disproportionately affect the poorest families. I wonder if he's read this:

https://www.unenvironment.org/news-and-stories/story/air-pollution-hurts-poorest-most

[Bmblbzzz]

Mr Rees cited the acceleration of plans to pedestrianise the Old City, the closure of Bristol Bridge and Baldwin Street to through-traffic, and the widening of pavements and introduction of cycle lanes to 20 streets in the city.

Acceleration? Didn't we read just this week that the closures (which in any case are only partial closures) of Bristol Bridge and Baldwin Street have been delayed until August?

[TonyK]

The article is rather light on detail and doesn't indicate where or when Mayor Rees said this. I can't find any other reference to it, and Bristol Live's attempts to get more information drew a blank.

This often happens with early election material. It will get more vague as we approach May 2021's ballot, with purdah being cited as the reason. A feasibility study will no doubt report next June.

[Noggin]

The article is rather light on detail and doesn't indicate where or when Mayor Rees said this. I can't find any other reference to it, and Bristol Live's attempts to get more information drew a blank.

This often happens with early election material. It will get more vague as we approach May 2021's ballot, with purdah being cited as the reason. A feasibility study will no doubt report next June.

Who knows - but arguably it was residents parking that did for George Ferguson, at least in part - if Marv starts to mess with the ability to drive through the city then he might well find the 'red walls' of South Bristol starting to crumble.

[DaveHarries]

With both York and, more surprisingly, Birmingham putting forward proposals to ban all cars within their city centres, Bristol's diesel ban is beginning to look tame.

As far as Birmingham's plans go I saw a social media post about it the other day: a number of people in reply were accusing Birmingham CC of imposing the congestion charge to enter the city centre as a stealth tax and saying that they will not venture into the city by any means as a result.

For my part I (fortunately) live in Bristol, rather than Birmingham which is not a place I venture to unless work decides to send me up there. However I give them credit for their implementation of the Metro scheme (a proper one that runs on rails, not a [...] one that runs on guidewheels with double-deck buses as in Bristol) which network they are expanding at present in 4 locations: at least they are bringing in a viable alternative, unlike Bristol.

Dave

[Bmblbzzz]

However I give them credit for their implementation of the Metro scheme (a proper one that runs on rails, not a [...] one that runs on guidewheels with double-deck buses as in Bristol) which network they are expanding at present in 4 locations: at least they are bringing in a viable alternative, unlike Bristol.

Dave

True! Actual trams and buses which are simply buses rather 'JustaBusWithAFancyName'!

(And of course Bristol's diesel ban has now been abandoned.)

[DaveHarries]

(And of course Bristol's diesel ban has now been abandoned.)

Yep. I am looking at a change of car early next year: the latest version by the manufacturer (begins with 'S') of the car I currently have is proving rather tempting. The current car I have is 1.6TDI (diesel) but they appear to no longer be doing 1.6TDI so possibly 1.5TSI but there is also now a Hybrid version: I am likely to try both before I decide.

If work sends me to Birmingham / Wolverhampton and I have to get from one end to the other the tram is my preferred option: a single on the train from Wolverhampton to Birmingham NS is currently ?4.90 (O/Pk Day Rtn ?6.10; Peak Day Rtn ?8.20) but the Midland Metro will do a day ticket with unlimited trips for a mere 4.40 (after 9:30am: before 9:30am it is 6.00) but both are bargains and no-brainers. Singles and returns can also be had though for journeys on smaller parts of the route. It is worth noting that buses in Birmingham have a fare cap of around 2.40. There is also, lastly, a combined bus and tram day ticket (5.60 after 9:30am, also a bargain) for unlimited bus (NatEx WM) and tram travel for the day. Fares as given on https://westmidlandsmetro.com/fare-finder/

Making public transport reliable and cheap, as per Birmingham, is the only way to make people use it: Bristol has a good lot to learn and Birmingham seems to be a good place to start learning it. Marvie and co. aren't even half way there IMO^▸ (in my opinion). Anyway, sorry for digressing off-topic a bit.

Cheers,
Dave

[Red Squirrel]

I am looking at a change of car early next year: the latest version by the manufacturer (begins with 'S') of the car I currently have is proving rather tempting. The current car I have is 1.6TDI (diesel) but they appear to no longer be doing 1.6TDI so possibly 1.5TSI but there is also now a Hybrid version: I am likely to try both before I decide.

Seat? Suzuki? Subaru? Stutz?

I'm sure you'll be aware of this, but there's hybrids and there's hybrids. So-called 'self-charging hybrids' are 20-year-old technology and, in essence [une blague pour les francophones!], just a slightly more complex, slightly more efficient petrol engine. Plug-in hybrids on the other hand generally have around 20 miles of pure electric range, so if you have somewhere to plug one in then that might work for you. You may find you can pre-heat it while it's plugged in too, which will stop the car gassing your neighbours on cold mornings.

We've had a plug-in hybrid for five years. If we get another car, it'll be a pure electric.

Anyway, sorry for digressing off-topic a bit.

If we insisted on members staying on topic, this would be a dull place!