Bristol Clean Air Zone proposals

[whole diary]

[Bmblbzzz]

If we could devise a reliable test to measure particulates from tyres and brakes.

[initiation]

So decision next week and it turns out they are wanting to go for both options due to one not delivering changes quick enough.

https://www.bristolpost.co.uk/news/bristol-news/congestion-zone-diesel-ban-council-3477818

[Red Squirrel]

If the Post article is not sufficiently detailed for you, you can find a lot more information here: https://democracy.bristol.gov.uk/mgAi.aspx?ID=17389#mgDocuments

Edit: This presents the information in a more user-friendly format: https://www.cleanairforbristol.org/

[Noggin]

But remember folks, the key point is that BCC^» (Bristol City Council - about) can't actually bring in a diesel fuel ban under current legislation :-)

 

[Bmblbzzz]

The scrappage scheme is interesting (as well as disappointing in various ways). Has there previously been one run by a city or local authority rather than a government or manufacturer/dealer network?

[hoover50]

What Bristol Council seems to have forgotten is that there will still be hundreds of diesel-powered train services running through the clean air zone every day!

[Red Squirrel]

What Bristol Council seems to have forgotten is that there will still be hundreds of diesel-powered train services running through the clean air zone every day!

There are no train services running through the inner 'diesel ban' zone. Train services do however pass through the outer Clean Air zone, but (unlike boats) they don't seem to get a mention; boats - which do very much putter around within the diesel ban zone - are specifically excluded from these proposals.

[eXPassenger]

I am having trouble with the map.  As shown the Plimsol Bridge appears to be in the non diesel car zone.  How will traffic from the A370 or A38 turn down Portway towards Avonmouth?

[stuving]

The scrappage scheme is interesting (as well as disappointing in various ways). Has there previously been one run by a city or local authority rather than a government or manufacturer/dealer network?

I can't see any detail about what this might be, except that it is described as "local". Has anyone found any more? My guess is that it might help people who live in (or maybe have to enter) the "small area". However, there is a list of potential exceptions to the diesel ban:

Draft Potential Concessions/Exemptions:
 Blue badge holders located in the small area
 Low income households in the small area, with diesel cars as their sole vehicle
 Home to School Transport buses and coaches
 Emergency service vehicles
 NHS Patient Transport ambulances
 Community transport vehicles
 Disabled passenger vehicle tax class
 Specialist vehicles (e.g. cranes, agricultural vehicles)
 Historic Vehicles
 Security Services
 Diplomatic Vehicles, Military Vehicles

That looks to me the obvious place to have made a linkage with the scrappage scheme.

Another point about the diesel ban is that it takes no account of the lower emissions of new cars. I think I read that cars to the latest standard are cleaner than the equivalent petrol cars, for NOX at least*. Since the CAZ^▸ (Clean Air Zone) doesn't affect cars anyway, nothing in the scheme is based on actual vehicle emissions at all.  That could be the basis for a legal challenge, I imagine.

But then, it looks as if the modelling wasn't based on future trends in actual cars either. Mind you, that's based on a limited sampling of a huge word-heap (if you think the BCC^» (Bristol City Council - about) business case documents have a poor information:verbiage ratio, you should see laqm.defra.gov.uk).

* Update: Having tracked down some of the data that support COPERT (the official calculator of emissions), they don't support that. Diesel NOX has hardly been reduced by emissions control regimes, and the Euro 5 & 6 standards were meant to reduce it threefold, but failed due to poor enforcement. The resulting staged revisions are still coming into force, but by next year that reduction is now expected to happen. But that still leaves levels three times those of petrol cars (roughly - for all figures).

[Red Squirrel]

I am having trouble with the map.  As shown the Plimsol Bridge appears to be in the non diesel car zone.  How will traffic from the A370 or A38 turn down Portway towards Avonmouth?

...as is Temple Way, the main route to the M32. It looks like diesel-drivers living in South Bristol will have to go a very long way round if they want to head North.

[eXPassenger]

I have now read most of the BCC^» (Bristol City Council - about) document (a great cure for insomnia).  The marked area on the map is the monitoring zone and the roads that will be closed to diesel cars are far more restricted but I cannot determine the exact streets.

Edit at 21:30 It does appear that the diesel car exclusion ban will apply to the inner area of the map.  A map on page 758 describes this inner zone (Plimsol Bridge / Cumberland Basin to end of M32) as 'Car diesel ban area'.

The details of the scrappage scheme are:

A scrappage scheme (up to £2,000) for private diesel cars. This would provide a grant towards a new vehicle or an alternative mode of transport. Vehicles belonging to residents in Bristol, Bath & North East Somerset, North Somerset and South Gloucestershire would be eligible – as long as their drive into work includes the Option 1 charging zone area or they live in the area.

[johnneyw]

The details of the scrappage scheme are:

A scrappage scheme (up to £2,000) for private diesel cars. This would provide a grant towards a new vehicle or an alternative mode of transport. Vehicles belonging to residents in Bristol, Bath & North East Somerset, North Somerset and South Gloucestershire would be eligible – as long as their drive into work includes the Option 1 charging zone area or they live in the area.

So, anybody in those areas without one may wish to purchase and old diesel for a few hundred quid and kerchang..... 2 grand scrappage.

I'm sure it's not that simple but where there's a scheme you will get schemers.

[eXPassenger]

The details of the scrappage scheme are:

A scrappage scheme (up to £2,000) for private diesel cars. This would provide a grant towards a new vehicle or an alternative mode of transport. Vehicles belonging to residents in Bristol, Bath & North East Somerset, North Somerset and South Gloucestershire would be eligible – as long as their drive into work includes the Option 1 charging zone area or they live in the area.

So, anybody in those areas without one may wish to purchase and old diesel for a few hundred quid and kerchang..... 2 grand scrappage.

I'm sure it's not that simple but where there's a scheme you will get schemers.

The words are 'up to £2,000' so you would get less for an old banger.

[TonyK]

So, anybody in those areas without one may wish to purchase and old diesel for a few hundred quid and kerchang..... 2 grand scrappage.

I'm sure it's not that simple but where there's a scheme you will get schemers.

My thoughts also! The Law of Unintended Consequences will always get you. Something else that could happen is  the formation of queues of diesel cars on the periphery, waiting for the clock to hit 3pm. Maybe five overhead traffic lights, like in the Formula 1 racing, could be installed on borders?
It also looks as though the diesel ban will be means tested with the exemptions (how could a council do anything without a list of exemptions?) including:

 Low income households in the small area, with diesel cars as their sole vehicle

I spent a fair part of my working life dealing with the vagaries of means testing, and know that this could only work with a team of investigators dealing with the dishonest applications from those with two cars, one undeclared, or an undisclosed partner with a car as well as your diesel. "Low income households" will probably be defined by a certain level of tax credit or Universal Credit payment. Given that I once dealt with someone who failed to disclose earnings to get benefit to pay for a TV licence so that she wouldn't be breaking the law*, I know where that can take us.

None of which is to say that I disagree with the idea, even if a few parts of it seem a little counter-intuitive.

(*The magistrates saw the irony, but not the funny side.)

[Bmblbzzz]

Given that I once dealt with someone who failed to disclose earnings to get benefit to pay for a TV licence so that she wouldn't be breaking the law*, I know where that can take us.

None of which is to say that I disagree with the idea, even if a few parts of it seem a little counter-intuitive.

(*The magistrates saw the irony, but not the funny side.)

I reckon there's a lesson there and it's in the benefits of visible and invisible enforcement. TV licences are (or were, I'm assuming this was back in the olden days) visibly enforced with warning letters and detector vans. In fact, the detector vans didn't really detect anything, they were just for show. The only way you could actually be caught without a licence was by admitting you had a TV or being caught watching, but most people, understandably, believed in the electromagnetic power of the detector vans, so coughed up.

Whereas enforcement of benefit regulations did/does not involve any showy tech but is probably far more effective.

So in the case of a Clean Air Zone, you might need for instance lots of signs at the perimeter to state boldly and clearly the rules along with bright yellow cameras, and more discreet cameras within the CAZ^▸ (Clean Air Zone) to track movements of vehicles within it. Or some other sort of dual strategy.

You're also going need to a very clear explanation of the two different zones, along with the time element which is bound to confuse some.