Fares from TVMs

[whole diary]

[Worcester_Passenger]

This evening I bought a London - Worcester return ticket from one of the TVMs^▸ (Ticket Vending Machine) at Paddington.

I normally pay £37.30 for a Super Off-Peak Return with a Senior Railcard - but buying this ticket from the TVM cost £39.10.

Is that a standard mark-up or have I missed a fare increase?

[rogerw]

£37.30 is the fare via Evesham. £39.10 fare is valid via Gloucester.  Did the TVM^▸ (Ticket Vending Machine) offer you the option of route?

[Worcester_Passenger]

No.

[JayMac]

Complain to GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway) that you were mis-sold the fare.

When there are route options for a particular journey then TVMs^▸ (Ticket Vending Machine) should clearly show those options. To do anything less, or to make the selection of fares unclear or confusing, is anti-consumer.

[froome]

Do TVMs^▸ (Ticket Vending Machine) usually offer alternative routes? I tried to buy a return ticket from Bath Spa to Bangor via Newport last week, but the TVM only offered the fare via Birmingham, which is considerably more.

[grahame]

Do TVMs^▸ (Ticket Vending Machine) usually offer alternative routes? I tried to buy a return ticket from Bath Spa to Bangor via Newport last week, but the TVM only offered the fare via Birmingham, which is considerably more.

There is no contracted requirement in franchises for TVMs to offer the full range of tickets.   That requirement is only on staffed ticket offices, and even then there's a string of exceptions ... I have been refused sale of a ticket for the following day at Paddington from a staffed ticket office after (I think) 9 p.m.

Something of a grey area in my mind about what a TVM is required to offer, what a TVM should offer according to the franchise, what a TVM should offer under consumer law, and what a TVM actually offers.  And that's before I add "what I feel a TVM should morally offer, and how offerings should be described / laid out / navigated".   Realistically, it would be very hard to have everything there ... just as there are some tickets that are not available online ...

[stuving]

Do TVMs^▸ (Ticket Vending Machine) usually offer alternative routes? I tried to buy a return ticket from Bath Spa to Bangor via Newport last week, but the TVM only offered the fare via Birmingham, which is considerably more.

The last time I bought a ticket to Wokingham at Waterloo was some time ago (I would have come back via Eurostar or air and used Oyster^▸ (Smartcard system used by passengers on Transport for London services) for the tube). However, I recall being a bit thrown to be asked to choose a route as a necessary step - no default if I just pressed "yes". The choice is a but puzzling, as seen by the fares for the three routes (with current OP^▸ (Original Poster / topic starter) single fares) are :

Any permitted               £26.10 (from WAT UND and zone U1*)
Via Ascot/Guildford        £16.50
Via Ascot                     £16.20

The first one is rather silly, as once you're already at Waterloo it isn't even quicker. BRFares gives £23.10 for the CDS^▸ (Off Peak Day Single [ticket type] (formerly 'Cheap Day')), which is not "cross-London". BRFares distinguishes the NR^» (Network Rail - home page) and LU stations, but I have always found NR, their machines, and their OJP^▸ (Online Journey Planner) don't (or not clearly).

The other two are so close in price that I have always wondered why they bother to offer both. Note that these fares also have an alternative starting from the LU station, but as that includes all of zone 1 it costs more. It is also odd to see that these direct fares are anytime, there being no off-peaks in this direction. From the LU station, however, there are super off-peak fares!

And another long-standing puzzle - why is that "Ascot/Guildford"? I've always taken it to be for travel direct to GLD, and change there for WKM, and the OJP thinks so too. What has Ascot got to do with it? The "via Staines" route could be called "via Ascot" just as well - it's not as if any sane person* would change at Ascot and then go via Guildford, and you can't now even do that without a further change at Aldershot!

Does that make you wonder if being given the choice is always helpful? And isn't it remarkable how much anomaly can be found in one TVM screen ...

* Excepting the obvious exceptions, of course.

[Worcester_Passenger]

Here is a picture of the screen in question. (I thought I'd posted this earlier this morning - but Something Went Wrong).


Edit to include image within post - Grahame.   You can see the image bigger if you want by opening it in a separate window.

[plymothian]

What's on page 2?

[Worcester_Passenger]

What's on page 2?

Page 2 had First Class fares, highlighted in the lighter green that can be seen on page 1.

[Fourbee]

And another long-standing puzzle - why is that "Ascot/Guildford"?

AIUI^▸ (as I understand it), the forward slash is interpreted as "OR".

So in the example above Avantix^▸ (Ticket Issuing System used on board trains) lists the routes as "Via Evesham" or "Evesham/Stroud" which has been handily truncated by the TVM^▸ (Ticket Vending Machine).

The missing fare is the Super Off Peak Return, £37.30 "Via Evesham". That has restriction code GQ and the more expensive "Evesham/Stroud" ticket has restriction code 5R. As far as I can see though the outward restrictions look comparable. Why is the machine hiding it?

[jamestheredengine]

And another long-standing puzzle - why is that "Ascot/Guildford"?

AIUI^▸ (as I understand it), the forward slash is interpreted as "OR".

Wouldn't "Not Reading" be clearer?

[Trowres]

A similar issue (but with a slight twist) in the South East:

https://www.theguardian.com/money/2019/mar/18/southern-rail-super-off-peak-rail-fares-prices

GTR explains: “Wherever a passenger buys their ticket (from a self-service machine, ticket office or online) they will be offered the super off-peak fare. While there are no time restrictions on this at weekends for journeys solely on GTR services, we need to retain the off-peak option in case the journey is partly on the route of another operator that does have time restrictions on super off-peak tickets. We are planning to change the screens on self-service machines later this year so that the cheapest fare will always be displayed first.”

[eightonedee]

Perhaps it is indicative of how DfT^» (Department for Transport - about) regulation/interference is "not fit for purpose"

On the one hand, if what has been reported here is correct, some of the less popular features of IETs^▸ (Intercity Express Train) (notably downgrading of catering  specification) and the prohibition of refurbishing of Turbos to 4 across seating to render them more suitable for their new roles/removal of 4 across seating in 2 coach trains were DfT requirements. When it comes to matters that really would make life easier for travelers such as harmonisation the rules for fare rates across the network so you can buy tickets across TOC^▸ (Train Operating Company) boundaries easily, nothing is done.

From a passenger's point of view "privatised" rail travel would work if we knew that whatever route on a journey involving different TOCs we took staring at a particular time, the fare would be the same, but TOCs and ROSCOs^» (Rolling Stock Owning Company - about) were free to invest and upgrade the rolling stock as they saw fit to attract passengers.

What we seem to have instead is capricious bureaucracy governing the facilities on trains and a system that's impossible to understand for fares. The latest farce we have had on the East Midlands franchise shows that all the franchise system has become is a way for government to lay financial risk off for matters such as historic accrued pension liabilities on to the private sector. It is no wonder that National Express, Stagecoach, Deutsche Bahn and others are bailing out. I fear that the quality of our current crop of politicians of all shades is not up to grasping this issue. 

Is there anyone on this forum who is a DfT civil servant who might comment or explain please? We clearly have representatives from the industry who provide useful explanations, even if sometimes a little on the defensive side (but please don't let that comment stop you, folks, they are appreciated just the same!), but I have not yet recognised any posts from inside the Department.     

[On reflection, it's probably naive to imagine a professional civil servant responding and "blowing their cover"- so unless there's a brave recently retired Sir Humphrey out there, best treat that as a rhetorical question]