Bring back the Buffet on GWR

[whole diary]

[jamestheredengine]

7) A buffet is probably going to take up the equivalent of at least 8 seats, so you've got the loss of revenue from them to cover.

I suspect it is more like 16 seats, as the space opposite the buffet needs to be clear too. But I don't think it would result in a loss of revenue, just a bit more overcrowding now and again.  Probably wouldn't be noticed on a 9 car set, but agree having 5 car sets is more difficult to justify.  Does LNER^» (London North Eastern Railway - about) have buffets on its 5 car sets?

If the seats taken out are First Class seats, they can probably be replaced by reducing/eliminating the kitchen at the end.

[stuving]

Does LNER^» (London North Eastern Railway - about) have buffets on its 5 car sets?

Yes - see seating plans.

[Rob on the hill]

Does LNER^» (London North Eastern Railway - about) have buffets on its 5 car sets?

Yes - see seating plans.

As well as the buffets, the plans show that LNER have more 1st class seats on both 5 and 9 cars sets than GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway), meaning fewer standard class seats overall.

[grahame]

... But realistically, however one plays it, four stations with a combined ridership of 131k are not going to be a very good argument for slowing down service to Neath (817k) and Swansea (2.159m) ...

I agree, if you consider the chicken came first.   But it you think the egg came first ....

I would suggest that the ridership at a station is a combination of the population and (potential) travel habits of its catchment, and the provision of reliable services to and from the right place at the right time and at a decent price.    I will take your work for Baglan having a catchment issue.  Llanshamlet should not have that issue from my observations;  Skewen and Briton Ferry, I don't know.   Should we consider Pyle here too?

From Llanshamlet ... I suspect no service will be frequent enough over the short distance to beat the bus into Swansea.  Into Cardiff, you have trains at 06:45, 09:17 and 11:17 ... with three TfW unit trains in addition to the GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway) London expresses whistling through in between.  Stops at any one of about 07:15, 07:45, or 08:45 might just fill the gap ... return trains arriving at 16:07,18:00, 19:06 and 19:57 may not be too far off already.

Take a look at how passenger number have jumped at Manea, Parson Street, Melksham, Dronfield, Pinhoe and Copplestone (just to give a few examples) and see what lessons can be learned in forecasting Llanshamlet.  Which, I note, is a long way from our "bring back the buffet car" title.   Pehaps we should hatch an egg and see if we have a cygnet for a separate thread?

[stuving]

Does LNER^» (London North Eastern Railway - about) have buffets on its 5 car sets?

Yes - see seating plans.

As well as the buffets, the plans show that LNER have more 1st class seats on both 5 and 9 cars sets than GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway), meaning fewer standard class seats overall.

Yes, those are the original default layouts specified for both IEP^▸ (Intercity Express Program / Project.) orders. GWR's ones were built with reduced 1st class (as were the 802s); presumably the order was altered early on (and with no publicity).

[Timmer]

As well as the buffets, the plans show that LNER^» (London North Eastern Railway - about) have more 1st class seats on both 5 and 9 cars sets than GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway), meaning fewer standard class seats overall.

Which was also the original spec for the GWR IET^▸ (Intercity Express Train) fleet before they reduced 1st class accommodation on the entire HST^▸ (High Speed Train) fleet.

With LNER being a long distance operator, the amount of 1st class accommodation needed can be justified by the high number of ticket sales. A similar argument could be made for London to WoE services but would mean less Std seating.

[Phantom]

Splitting the trains on the way ... 5+5 from Paddington to Bristol, 5 cars on to Weston-super-mare.  5+5 from Paddington to Plymouth, 5 cars on to Penzance. 5+5 cars to Swansea, 5 cars on to Carmarthen.

..... Also, I thought I read that the Weston trains run with one set empty rather than splitting, which would defeat the object of it.

That is indeed correct, after rush hour we often get a 5+5 set, and encouraged to use the front portion only

[Timmer]

That is indeed correct, after rush hour we often get a 5+5 set, and encouraged to use the front portion only

What a waste of fuel and to keep in the topic of the hour producing carbon emissions to carry five empty carriages around.

[The Tall Controller]

Its interesting to see that LNER^» (London North Eastern Railway - about) have also reduced their First Class allocations:

225 set: 127 seats
HST^▸ (High Speed Train) set: 113 seats
Azuma^▸ (Brand name for Class 80x trains on LNER) 9-car: 106
Azuma 10-car: 96

[stuving]

Its interesting to see that LNER^» (London North Eastern Railway - about) have also reduced their First Class allocations:

225 set: 127 seats
HST^▸ (High Speed Train) set: 113 seats
Azuma^▸ (Brand name for Class 80x trains on LNER) 9-car: 106
Azuma 10-car: 96

Well, that won't have been LNER's doing - nor VTEC's, as the original IEP^▸ (Intercity Express Program / Project.) layouts had 47 per 5 and 103 per 9 (including wheelchairs). Since then an extra companion seat has squeezed into each (the 9-car now has 104; there are two unused numbers in the MEF1).

[Godfrey Tables]

Hope I'm posting this in the right place and it's not a duplicate.

I've just been sent this link which is being circulated around various whatsApp groups. Thought I'd post it here as it may be of interest to others and a general point of discussion:
https://you.38degrees.org.uk/petitions/great-western-railway-bring-back-the-buffet?bucket=&source=whatsapp-share-button

[Lee]

Hi Godfrey, I've merged your post into the already running topic.

[Godfrey Tables]

Thanks Lee 
I can't believe I didn't spot this thread already existed!