“flygskam”, or “flight-shame”, movement

[whole diary]

[Timmer]

You only have to look at what was achieved when Virgin introduced the Pendolino trains along with a service frequency of every 20 minutes between London and Manchester to see that is what’s needed to take the fight to the airlines. HS2^▸ (The next High Speed line(s)) all the way between London and Scotland. Anything less wont break the demand for flights between the two IMHO^▸ (in my humble opinion).

[grahame]

This thread is drifting into the path of the HS2^▸ (The next High Speed line(s)) thread. I think it is beginning to make the case I recently made there.

Good (I think) ... it shows that everything joins up ...

[Celestial]

Looking further north, there are currently 5 Flybe flights from Birmingham to Edinburgh. With a train every 2 hrs taking just on 4 hrs that would seem a good route for rail to make inroads into air maybe?  Sadly not, in March, Easyjet is introducing services from Glasgow and Edinburgh to Birmingham, 3 times a day, with lead in prices under £20. I suspect they will drive Flybe off the routes fairly quickly, but apart from that it's hardly heading in the right direction, is it?

(Flybe also fly Manchester to Edinburgh.  Another route where the speed and frequency of rail should make it an obvious choice.)

[TaplowGreen]

Should be easy for railways to catch up - all they need to do is compete on price, speed, reliability and comfort and they'll start to rival the airlines.

[eightf48544]

Flybe seems to in trouble according to BBC^» (British Broadcasting Corporation - home page) Radio 4.

[GBM]

Great concern to the local business community I'm hearing on the local radio.
Flybe seem to be on the brink of going under according to what I'm hearing.
Not good news, although if they do go down, in the short term GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway) should do really good business (apart from a signalling problem at Totnes; weather related speed restrictions in Cornwall and possibly weather incident at Dawlish later today)!

[TaplowGreen]

Great concern to the local business community I'm hearing on the local radio.
Flybe seem to be on the brink of going under according to what I'm hearing.
Not good news, although if they do go down, in the short term GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway) should do really good business (apart from a signalling problem at Totnes; weather related speed restrictions in Cornwall and possibly weather incident at Dawlish later today)!

It'll be very bad news for the Westcountry economy if they cease trading.

[TaplowGreen]

Great concern to the local business community I'm hearing on the local radio.
Flybe seem to be on the brink of going under according to what I'm hearing.
Not good news, although if they do go down, in the short term GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway) should do really good business (apart from a signalling problem at Totnes; weather related speed restrictions in Cornwall and possibly weather incident at Dawlish later today)!

It'll be very bad news for the Westcountry economy if they cease trading.

Sounds like there's a plan!

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-51100029

[ellendune]

Sounds like there's a plan!
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-51100029

Looks only like a short term fix

[broadgage]

Presumably the "climate emergency" is now forgotten about as it is proposed to make short haul air transport cheaper and therefore more popular.

[Celestial]

Presumably the "climate emergency" is now forgotten about as it is proposed to make short haul air transport cheaper and therefore more popular.

Indeed.  The comments from one passenger who flies between Edinburgh and Manchester and would be "devastated" by their closure does beg the question whether he even knows there is a 3 hr train service every two hours between the cities. 

[Bmblbzzz]

No, it's just put back into its rightful place: something we need to think about and act on but only when money can be made from it.

[TaplowGreen]

Presumably the "climate emergency" is now forgotten about as it is proposed to make short haul air transport cheaper and therefore more popular.

Indeed.  The comments from one passenger who flies between Edinburgh and Manchester and would be "devastated" by their closure does beg the question whether he even knows there is a 3 hr train service every two hours between the cities. 

Fair point - Manchester to Edinburgh seems a daft flight, but I have 6 friends who are travelling from Exeter to Edinburgh for a wedding - 2 hours by air v 8 hours by train, and the flights are cheaper- no contest.

All a question of balance - environmental issues notwithstanding, regional airports are unquestionably a good thing for regional economies and journeys for which rail/road alternatives are too long to be practical - if the railways step up in terms of price, comfort and reliability they may provide more competition on shorter routes

[Celestial]

Fair point - Manchester to Edinburgh seems a daft flight, but I have 6 friends who are travelling from Exeter to Edinburgh for a wedding - 2 hours by air v 8 hours by train, and the flights are cheaper- no contest.

All a question of balance - environmental issues notwithstanding, regional airports are unquestionably a good thing for regional economies and journeys for which rail/road alternatives are too long to be practical - if the railways step up in terms of price, comfort and reliability they may provide more competition on shorter routes

I agree. Unfortunately even from Bristol to Scotland the balance is definitely in favour of air, but the railway doesn't help the environmental cause for those who do have the time and inclination to go the greener way by charging fares that are so much higher.

Exeter to London City by air seems a nonsense too, even more so once Crossrail opens.  And Birmingham to Edi/Gla too, when there are frequent services taking four hours.  I think the rail industry could be more aggressive at marketing these alternatives using social media targeted at those living in the relevant areas. Even London to Edinburgh now with two trains an hour, one of which takes 4hrs 20 mins, throughout the day should now be becoming the norm for travellers rather than the exception.

But I accept that for N Ireland, the Highlands and Islands, and from the South West to the North East and Scotland, air does for the moment have a role to play, so any solution needs to discourage shorter hops whilst recognising the importance to the regions of air links.

[stuving]

...Unfortunately even from Bristol to Scotland the balance is definitely in favour of air, but the railway doesn't help the environmental cause for those who do have the time and inclination to go the greener way by charging fares that are so much higher.

Bring back the Edinburgh-Brstol sleeper?