'Bath is ready to have things done'

[whole diary]

[grahame]

From Somerset Live

'Bath is ready for action to tackle terrible traffic & air quality'

An alliance of Bath's top organisations has told the council to 'get on with' fixing transport problems

Bath is 'ready' for firm action to be taken to tackle the city's 'terrible' air quality - if only the city's council had the 'courage' to do something.

That's according to the leader of the Bath Alliance for Transport and Public Realm, a coalition of the city's 21 'most important' institutions, which has drawn up its own plan to inspire candidates battling it out at the upcoming local elections on May 2.

Van DuBose, leader of the Alliance, claimed politicians and representatives of Bath and North East Somerset Council are 'terrified' by the 'toxic' issue of transport.

[snip]

'Bath is ready to have things done'

Mr DuBose added: “The alliance mainly looks at higher level issues but the manifesto gets quite specific.
"Its purpose was to give inspiration and guidance to the political groups in preparing their own manifestos.
“They need to think long-term, transcending even the next election.
"We aren’t a campaign group. We’re just trying to help the council take action.
“Transport is uniquely politically toxic.
"Politicians are terrified of losing votes, they just try to get through the next four years.
"It takes courage to do anything. This council is fairly typical.

[Celestial]

Maybe if Bath citizens wants better air quality they can welcome electrification if it is ever restarted, rather than complain about the effect of a few poles and wires.  I bet they won't though.

And wasn't there a proposal for a Park and Ride that got kicked into the long grass by the environmental lobby too a few years back?

[grahame]

Maybe if Bath citizens wants better air quality they can welcome electrification if it is ever restarted, rather than complain about the effect of a few poles and wires.  I bet they won't though.

And wasn't there a proposal for a Park and Ride that got kicked into the long grass by the environmental lobby too a few years back?

There would be considerable sense in bringing people into the centre of Bath along the electric railway - though you will find it hard to come up with specific points to recommend that the join the trains to get there 

A study a while back looked at extending electrification from Newbury to Bedwyn, or Westbury, or Westbury with the links back to Bath and / or Chippenham.  However, in my view the wrong question(s) was/were asked and it turned out not to be worth electrifying Newbury to Westbury for just 2 electric trains per day.

I am ... attracted ... by the idea of electric services calling at ... oh, never mind - not a crayonista day ... but I can envisage a situation where additions to Bath's current ring of park and rides might not be in the same ring, but rather provide for shorter car journeys to longer public transport ones.   We do this already (we, personal, my wife and I) parking at home and catching the bus from the nearest stop all the way into Bath.  And I can envisage current and new station locations in Wiltshire offering enhanced electric transport into Bath as well as better serving their own towns / catchments.

[Noggin]

Much as I would love to see further rail electrification in the South West, the reality is that for suburban electrification to be an effective proposition you probably need to wire Gloucester to Taunton via Filton Bank, Bristol to Chippenham, probably Westbury, the Severn Beach line and the Portishead line (when it's opened).

The electric stock can be leased and paid for on the never-never, but you're also going to need a depot for electric stock (probably taking the opportunity to flog St Phillips Marsh), at least one grid connection (at something like £20m a pop), various bits of resignalling, you'll need to sort out Bath Road bridge in Bristol, Bristol East Junction needs rebuilding, figure out what to do about Chippenham's listed old footbridge, get wires past the Bath NIMBY's then finally there's the monumental task of putting up wires through Temple Meads, which itself needs a fairly hefty extension adding.

The reality is unfortunately that sort of dosh is unlikely to be coming from a Government that is far from pro rail.

The best opportunity for it to happen will be at the end of the next decade when the Voyagers and the Turbos become life-expired, diesel will be even more expensive and unacceptable, and much of the signalling will have been replaced.

On that basis, I would suggest that the best option in the interim is to push for an intensively worked S-Bahn style service centred around Bristol with the Turbos that are available. Yes, it is not particularly desirable environmentally (though better than private cars of course), but if it builds the case for further investment in rail then it will be worth it.     

[johnneyw]

Stumbled into this Bath Chronicle sponsored event on Facebook. It's a talk given by the Design Team Lead with French tram transport company Egis working on Midlands Metro about the possibilities of modern trams in Bath.

It's on Monday 2nd September at the Bath Royal Literary and Scientific Institute although it's not a free event.

More about it on the link below it anybody it interested.

https://www.eventbrite.com/e/bath-too-france-re-installs-33-trams-huge-commcial-envntal-benefit-tickets-67990259697?fbclid=IwAR0DWoN4gEuygBKBQ34aJWUJRdR5PPQYTRHbNFjAeiUR4okz4tb8NCROGXk

And a bit more general stuff from Bath Trams:

https://bathtrams.uk/how-the-french-tram-experience-might-apply-to-bath-sept-2-7-30-brlsi/

[martyjon]

Trams returning to Bath ? Pigs will have grown wings before that happens.

The thought of OHL^▸ (Over-Head Line) on the railway line through Bath was too much and the Burgermasters of that city protested so vigorously that the electrification of the GWML^▸ (Great Western Main Line) has all but been abandoned. OHL through the streets of Bath to power trams, forget it, even if someone else, god knows who, is paying.

[stuving]

Trams returning to Bath ? Pigs will have grown wings before that happens.

The thought of OHL^▸ (Over-Head Line) on the railway line through Bath was too much and the Burgermasters of that city protested so vigorously that the electrification of the GWML^▸ (Great Western Main Line) has all but been abandoned. OHL through the streets of Bath to power trams, forget it, even if someone else, god knows who, is paying.

So every smart tram systems company salesman - French or not - will be homing in on Bath with a pitch based on "now we cam make trams with no overhead wires at all, why not make Bath the first* city to have them?"

* Unless it's been done already - in which case some more powerful marketing words are needed.

[johnneyw]

To me, it's the need for little or no knitting above the streets that could be the game changer. Wouldn't have minded going myself but already promised a mate to help build a shed with him that day. The guaranteed ensuing Laurel and Hardy scenarios will ensure a late finish.

[Red Squirrel]

The thought of OHL^▸ (Over-Head Line) on the railway line through Bath was too much and the Burgermasters of that city protested so vigorously that the electrification of the GWML^▸ (Great Western Main Line) has all but been abandoned...

This is often repeated, but I've never seen any evidence that it it true. Bath is a World Heritage city - of course it insisted that the aesthetics were considered. You can't blame the 'Burgermasters' (or indeed any other short-order chefs) for the cock-ups that led to the curtailing of electrification.

[martyjon]

The thought of OHL^▸ (Over-Head Line) on the railway line through Bath was too much and the Burgermasters of that city protested so vigorously that the electrification of the GWML^▸ (Great Western Main Line) has all but been abandoned...

This is often repeated, but I've never seen any evidence that it it true. Bath is a World Heritage city - of course it insisted that the aesthetics were considered. You can't blame the 'Burgermasters' (or indeed any other short-order chefs) for the cock-ups that led to the curtailing of electrification.

Network Rail put out a A4 release which claimed they had engaged 3 design firms to each produce a suitable design of a Georgian / Victorian replica type OHL uprights and supports to carry the wires and the Burgermasters said NO.

[Noggin]

To me, it's the need for little or no knitting above the streets that could be the game changer. Wouldn't have minded going myself but already promised a mate to help build a shed with him that day. The guaranteed ensuing Laurel and Hardy scenarios will ensure a late finish.

As well as batteries and supercapacitors, there are various technologies for ground level power supply - see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ground-level_power_supply.

As for OHLE, apologies for the cross-post from the main GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway) electrification thread, but here's an example from Durham that hardly seems too obtrusive.

https://i2-prod.chroniclelive.co.uk/incoming/article15946172.ece/ALTERNATES/s615/0_HSR_NEC_310816tRAIN_05JPG.jpg

[Red Squirrel]

...the Burgermasters said NO.

Can you give links to the Network Rail proposal you refer to, and the response to them? I'm not sure who these burgermasters you refer to are: the council? The Bath Preservation Trust certainly appear to have struck a pragmatic balance between the requirements of electrification and the need (for it is a need) to protect Bath. 

[martyjon]

...the Burgermasters said NO.

Can you give links to the Network Rail proposal you refer to, and the response to them? I'm not sure who these burgermasters you refer to are: the council? The Bath Preservation Trust certainly appear to have struck a pragmatic balance between the requirements of electrification and the need (for it is a need) to protect Bath.

I can't provide a link but I attended one of the drop in sessions at the Guildhall in Bath in 2015 and the subject of the OHL^▸ (Over-Head Line) was definitely raised. Looking at the artists impression of a service passing through Sydney Gardens the OHL support depicted is not of a typical GWML^▸ (Great Western Main Line) OHL structure. There might even have been display boards depicting the designs forwarded for consideration but thats all academic now as it seems GWML electrification  ceases at Wooton Bassett for the foreseeable future.

The Bath Preservation Trust are probably consulted on matters concerning changing the face of Bath like the likes of The Merchant Venturers and Bristol Civic Societies are similarly used in Bristol.

[Red Squirrel]

I can't provide a link but I attended one of the drop in sessions at the Guildhall in Bath in 2015 and the subject of the OHL^▸ (Over-Head Line) was definitely raised. Looking at the artists impression of a service passing through Sydney Gardens the OHL support depicted is not of a typical GWML^▸ (Great Western Main Line) OHL structure. There might even have been display boards depicting the designs forwarded for consideration...

So the falafel-packers didn't say 'NO', but 'Would you mind changing a few things?', and Network Rail said 'Right-ho'. That's more or less how I understood it too, and it's a very long way from the assertion that somehow 'Bath' stopped electrification.

[philipgreg]

...the Burgermasters said NO.

Can you give links to the Network Rail proposal you refer to, and the response to them? I'm not sure who these burgermasters you refer to are: the council? The Bath Preservation Trust certainly appear to have struck a pragmatic balance between the requirements of electrification and the need (for it is a need) to protect Bath.

I can't provide a link but I attended one of the drop in sessions at the Guildhall in Bath in 2015 and the subject of the OHL^▸ (Over-Head Line) was definitely raised. Looking at the artists impression of a service passing through Sydney Gardens the OHL support depicted is not of a typical GWML^▸ (Great Western Main Line) OHL structure. There might even have been display boards depicting the designs forwarded for consideration but thats all academic now as it seems GWML electrification  ceases at Wooton Bassett for the foreseeable future.

The Bath Preservation Trust are probably consulted on matters concerning changing the face of Bath like the likes of The Merchant Venturers and Bristol Civic Societies are similarly used in Bristol.

Just to point out that electrification doesn't stop at Wooton Bassett, it gets within 1/4 of a mile of Chippenham. Apart from the footbridge at Chippenham virtually all the other clearance work has been done at huge expense (Box tunnel, Sydney Gardens) so actually getting to Bristol East should be relatively straight forward. There have been plenty of other listed structures dealt with along the way if they really wanted to do it, so I don't think Chippenham footbridge is really a major stumbling block.