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Author Topic: Pendolino Deadlock Broken?  (Read 11652 times)
John R
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« Reply #15 on: April 06, 2008, 18:07:54 »

Because Virgin wanted a 2 year franchise extension in exchange for the disruption and costs involved in adding the 2 coaches to the fleet. DaFT» (Department for Transport - critical sounding abbreviation I discourage - about) thought that Virgin thought they had them over a barrel, and decided to call their bluff.

 It's a bit simplistic to say that you can "just" lengthen the platforms, if nothing else the depots will need a bit tacked on to the end.
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Btline
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« Reply #16 on: April 06, 2008, 18:43:15 »

To be honest, I would have thought most WCML (West Coast Main Line) platforms would be ample long enough anyway?

How long were the trains in the 50s?
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eightf48544
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« Reply #17 on: April 07, 2008, 11:37:55 »

Because Virgin wanted a 2 year franchise extension in exchange for the disruption and costs involved in adding the 2 coaches to the fleet. DaFT» (Department for Transport - critical sounding abbreviation I discourage - about) thought that Virgin thought they had them over a barrel, and decided to call their bluff.

 It's a bit simplistic to say that you can "just" lengthen the platforms, if nothing else the depots will need a bit tacked on to the end.

This saga just highlights the stupidity of the current way of running the railway. As Christian Wolmar asks what are TOCS for?

I would suggest it is not too simplistic just to lengthen the platforms all it requires is a good engineer/designer to design the extensions and a set of builders to do the work. On the old Southern the Civil Engineer could have ordered up pre-stressed concrete platforms in kit form from Exmouth Junction Concrete depot.  All you have to do on site is to drill the foundations for the legs. The Chessington branch stations are all of this design.

As for the depots they seem to be modular contruction so you just add a couple of RSJ (Rolled Steel Joist, which can also be called ) spans.

It's easy, it only costs money.

The problem is we seem so scared of spending money without all sorts of  safeguards to ensure the money is spent correctly (no risks taken) which only add to the costs in the long run because in any project there is risk and you can't avoid it, however, clever you are.

So what are the risks in this project? That by 2012 we will be in a deep recession and train travel will drop so WCML (West Coast Main Line) will have 2 coaches too many on it's trains. But by 2015 another boom will start and train travel will be up again so WCML will be 2 coaches too short. However, even if there is  recession the M1/M6 will probably still be in gridlock by 2012.
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Shazz
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« Reply #18 on: April 07, 2008, 11:48:01 »

iirc the WCML (West Coast Main Line) was designed for 11 coaches, so every station shouldnt need to have a thing done to it...
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Tim
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« Reply #19 on: April 08, 2008, 14:26:45 »

Thanks Lee for the  info re service provider.

It's good to see the DfT» (Department for Transport - about) can make buying 2 extra carriages such a convoluted process.

Why can't whoever runs the fleet buy them add them to the untis which incidently takes a week per unit because all the computers have to be synchronised to talk to each each other? Whilst this is going on  Network Rail can lengthen any platforms or is that too simple?

I remember the first systems analysis course i went on and the lecturer walked in the room and wrote KISS (keep it simple, stupid!) (keep it Simple Stupid) on the board.  Would that staff in the DfT had been on the same course.

According to Private Eye, the shadow company is a decive to keep the new trains out of the hands of Virgin because teh DfT think (perhaps rightly) that Virgin got a far to good deal with their current franchise and don't what to hand them anu more money. 
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John R
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« Reply #20 on: April 08, 2008, 18:04:50 »

iirc the WCML (West Coast Main Line) was designed for 11 coaches, so every station shouldnt need to have a thing done to it...

Not what Railway Magazine is saying. Platform and signalling alterations will be required (along with SDO (Selective Door Opening) apparently!)
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Btline
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« Reply #21 on: April 08, 2008, 20:30:42 »

Not what Railway Magazine is saying. Platform and signalling alterations will be required (along with SDO (Selective Door Opening) apparently!)

 Angry Not SDO Angry
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Chris from Nailsea
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« Reply #22 on: April 08, 2008, 20:56:49 »

Erm ... See http://www.railwaymagazine.co.uk/ for further information! Wink
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William Huskisson MP (Member of Parliament) was the first person to be killed by a train while crossing the tracks, in 1830.  Many more have died in the same way since then.  Don't take a chance: stop, look, listen.

"Level crossings are safe, unless they are used in an unsafe manner."  Discuss.
swlines
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« Reply #23 on: April 08, 2008, 21:15:28 »

There is a difference between SDO (Selective Door Opening) on HSTs (High Speed Train) and SDO on multiple units - SDO on units are a fair bit simpler to use as they are in a fixed formation as opposed to HSTs which can easily vary.

Remember, the WCML (West Coast Main Line) was designed 11 coaches of a 20m length... Pendolinos are 23m long... Smiley
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John R
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« Reply #24 on: April 08, 2008, 22:31:07 »

And you don't have to walk half the length of the trains to slam a door shut when I think about it.
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Btline
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« Reply #25 on: April 08, 2008, 23:18:33 »

And you don't have to walk half the length of the trains to slam a door shut when I think about it.

True. Maybe it won't be that bad! Grin
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John R
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« Reply #26 on: May 06, 2008, 20:32:11 »

Extra 106 coaches were given the go-ahead today. As a point of interest, I wonder how many times this will be "announced" by the government before they are finally put into service. 
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Lee
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« Reply #27 on: May 06, 2008, 20:44:39 »

Extra 106 coaches were given the go-ahead today. As a point of interest, I wonder how many times this will be "announced" by the government before they are finally put into service. 

DfT» (Department for Transport - about) Press Release link.
http://nds.coi.gov.uk/environment/fullDetail.asp?ReleaseID=366614&NewsAreaID=2&NavigatedFromDepartment=False

Also :

The following bidders have been shortlisted for Pendolino Lengthening Service Provider and will receive an Invitation to Tender shortly:

* Govia Transportation Projects Limited. Govia Limited's parents are the Go-Ahead Group plc and Keolis SA

* Virgin Rail Projects Limited. Owned by a single incorporated entity - Virgin Rail Group Holdings Limited. Virgin Rail Group Holdings Limited is owned 51% by Virgin Holdings Limited and 49% by Stagecoach Rail Holdings Limited (whose ultimate parent is Stagecoach plc).
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Vous devez ĂȘtre impitoyable, parce que ces gens sont des salauds - https://looka.com/s/78722877
Btline
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« Reply #28 on: May 06, 2008, 21:12:36 »

Oh, why does there need to be bidding? Just build the damn things!
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John R
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« Reply #29 on: May 06, 2008, 21:13:54 »

Note the headline "Government takes action...."  No mention of the inaction for the last couple of years during which they would have been half built.
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