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John R
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« on: March 19, 2008, 19:08:03 » |
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http://www.transportbriefing.co.uk/story.php?id=4797Nothing to do with our area, but this might be of interest for those following the long running saga of the 2 extra coaches for Pendolinos. Seems a very tortuous contractual way to achieve the aim, but if the government don't want to sign up to Virgin's terms, they may have no option. Still, as with everything this government announces, I'll believe it when the contract is signed to commence the build.
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Lee
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« Reply #1 on: March 19, 2008, 21:31:33 » |
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John R
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« Reply #2 on: March 19, 2008, 21:47:07 » |
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So do you reckon the extra 4 will be used to enable Liverpool - London to become half hourly, or enable the Birmingham Scotland WC▸ services to be switched from Voyagers to Pendos, removing the ludicrous situation whereby diesel services now run several hundred miles wholly under the wires. Both seem very worthy causes to me.
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Btline
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« Reply #3 on: March 20, 2008, 22:39:18 » |
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So do you reckon the extra 4 will be used to enable Liverpool - London to become half hourly, or enable the Birmingham Scotland WC▸ services to be switched from Voyagers to Pendos, removing the ludicrous situation whereby diesel services now run several hundred miles wholly under the wires. Both seem very worthy causes to me.
I hope that the 4 spares (once they have been used as subs) will go onto the Birmingham to Scotland services! But- Virgin won't want that because it is cheaper to run diesel trains than electric ones! The Liverpool service is staying hourly, but both the West Midlands and the Manchester to London services are being pushed up to 3tph! |
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Lee
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« Reply #4 on: March 21, 2008, 00:34:49 » |
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From the Save The Train forum : Whilst this is welcoming news, Virgin Trains submitted a proposal a while ago to lenghten the trains to 11-cars with an not unreasonable increase in subsidy to pay for it. The Government rejected that proposal, preferring to wait until the franchise is re-let. This is the first I have heard 'new' sets being mentioned though, even if it is only a handful.
Even considering that this December the current fleet utilisation is being stepped up to provide considerably more seats and faster journeys, with current growth forecasts that will soon be swallowed up, and by the time these extra carriages are delivered trains will once again be struggling to cope with passenger numbers.
It's a shame that we have to wait until virtual 'breaking point' before investment is forthcoming to allieviate passengers that have suffered for years.
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John R
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« Reply #5 on: March 21, 2008, 09:50:20 » |
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So do you reckon the extra 4 will be used to enable Liverpool - London to become half hourly, or enable the Birmingham Scotland WC▸ services to be switched from Voyagers to Pendos, removing the ludicrous situation whereby diesel services now run several hundred miles wholly under the wires. Both seem very worthy causes to me.
I hope that the 4 spares (once they have been used as subs) will go onto the Birmingham to Scotland services! But- Virgin won't want that because it is cheaper to run diesel trains than electric ones! The Liverpool service is staying hourly, but both the West Midlands and the Manchester to London services are being pushed up to 3tph! Agree that's the 2008 timetable plan. I was speculating about their use when they come in to full use (ie as opposed to substituting) in 2012. |
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eightf48544
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« Reply #7 on: April 05, 2008, 11:04:20 » |
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Probably the first sensible thing the DfT» has done for a very long time. As always two years late. It is a shame that such a simple task as buying extra coaches and 4 new sets has to be so complicated. See Can someone explain what a service provider is? I thought everything was in place and the ROSCO» just had to order them from the manufactures. Or am I being naive? |
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Btline
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« Reply #8 on: April 05, 2008, 15:56:43 » |
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According to Wikipedia, the decision for Virgin increasing Manchester - London to 3tph has mant that many local services are to be axed!  Is this true? Does anyone have a source for this/newspaper article? |
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Lee
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« Reply #9 on: April 05, 2008, 17:38:42 » |
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According to Wikipedia, the decision for Virgin increasing Manchester - London to 3tph has mant that many local services are to be axed! Is this true? Does anyone have a source for this/newspaper article? There are changes, which can be found in the link below and which the GMPTE▸ describe as follows : http://www.gmpta.gov.uk/uploads/agendas/2/92/Reports/Item%2006.%20Dec%202008%20Rail%20Timetable.pdf2.1. Following completion of the West Coast Main Line upgrade works, in December 2008 long distance train services from Manchester will be significantly enhanced. These changes will have a consequential impact on many local rail service routes, providing an opportunity to recast services to better meet current demand.
2.2. The opportunity has also been taken to begin to implement the recommendations in the North West Route Utilisation Strategy (NW RUS▸ ), which was published by Network Rail on 1st May 2007, and reported to Members at the Policy Committee meeting on 13th July. The NW RUS recommendations have been considered in the context of Members^ known aspirations and with regard to the TIF▸ bid.
2.3. In addition, the December 2008 changes create an opportunity to re-cast certain local services. There is some inconsistency in the provision of rail services across Greater Manchester. Ideally all local rail services should comprise simple, easy to understand, clock face timetables with minimal alterations by time of day / day of week.
2.4. It must also be noted that the proposed changes should be seen as an important stage in the on-going development of services, not a one-off change
2.5. The Appendix to this report lists these aspirations and indicates what might be taken forward in advance of December 2008. However, it is important to note that the present core frequency of services on all routes has been maintained, and in selected cases enhanced. |
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Btline
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« Reply #10 on: April 05, 2008, 17:51:11 » |
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Are the changes bad?
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Lee
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« Reply #11 on: April 05, 2008, 18:45:12 » |
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Are the changes bad?
A couple of them stand out as being of interest : The hourly Chester ^ Piccadilly service is to be retimed, with peak extras operating only between Chester ^ Stockport, due to capacity constraints between Stockport and Manchester. GMPTE will investigate through ticketing with Metrolink at Altrincham to maintain travel opportunities. Blackpool to Buxton service replaced by
^ A Blackpool to Victoria service
^ A Manchester Piccadilly to Buxton service
^ Hazel Grove to Bolton and/or Preston services A bit disappointing that there is no progress on the Denton/Reddish South issue : GMPTA Aspirations. 2tph service to Victoria (Stockport MBC, Tameside MBC, GMPTA).
Outcome of Initial Discussions ^ Given the present operational constraints over the route, and the need for capital investment to achieve the above aspiration, no changes are proposed. There is also talk of reviews that will need to be kept an eye on. There are some positives though : - A local, half hourly all stations Piccadilly ^ Airport service will be introduced, continuing hourly all stations to Crewe. - An hourly stopping service to Stoke-on-Trent. - Restoration of 4 tph at Levenshulme and Heaton Chapel. |
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Btline
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« Reply #12 on: April 05, 2008, 20:02:36 » |
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So perhaps the Wikipedia statement was written by a Buxton resident who goes to Blackpool each weekend!  It does not seem that bad at all! Indeed, there seem to be more enhancements! |
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Lee
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« Reply #13 on: April 06, 2008, 15:48:20 » |
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See Can someone explain what a service provider is? I thought everything was in place and the ROSCO» just had to order them from the manufactures. Or am I being naive? These quotes from the link below explain what "service provider" means in this context : http://www.rmtbristol.org.uk/2008/03/dft_sidelines_virgin_to_expand.htmlAccording to the strategy, the DfT» intends to appoint a 'shadow' train operator which will be responsible for taking delivery of new carriages from manufacturer Alstom and liaising with rolling stock leasing company Angel Trains, which will finance and own the new vehicles. The successful bidder would be responsible for testing the trains on the National Rail network in order to secure safety acceptance certificates and would oversee enhancements to train depots and work to extend station platforms to support 11-car services. Responsibility for introducing the new trains would transfer to the new West Coast franchise in 2012 at which point the shadow operator contract would end.
In order to be able to test the new rolling stock, the successful bidder would have to be cleared by Network Rail and the Office of Rail Regulation to run trains on the National Rail network. This means the contract is likely to go to an existing train operator that currently runs passenger or freight services. The new Pendolino strategy makes clear that the DfT is not bound to proceeding with the measures described in the document so in theory Virgin could still reach agreement with the government to buy the new carriages. However, the detailed plans to introduce a shadow train operator imply that the government feels unable to reach agreement with the current franchisee. They also raise questions about whether Virgin can hope to win the new West Coast franchise, due to begin in 2012, given that the government feels it needs to work with a third party to expand the train fleet. Meanwhile, the successful bidder for the shadow contract would be able to bring its experience working with the Pendolino fleet to any bid for the new franchise. |
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eightf48544
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« Reply #14 on: April 06, 2008, 16:05:30 » |
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Thanks Lee for the info re service provider.
It's good to see the DfT» can make buying 2 extra carriages such a convoluted process.
Why can't whoever runs the fleet buy them add them to the untis which incidently takes a week per unit because all the computers have to be synchronised to talk to each each other? Whilst this is going on Network Rail can lengthen any platforms or is that too simple?
I remember the first systems analysis course i went on and the lecturer walked in the room and wrote KISS▸ (keep it Simple Stupid) on the board. Would that staff in the DfT had been on the same course.
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