Reservations

[whole diary]

[Red Squirrel]

The same principle can apply to the electronic signs in the IETs^▸ (Intercity Express Train).

Only if they are working!

[IndustryInsider]

The same principle can apply to the electronic signs in the IETs^▸ (Intercity Express Train).

Only if they are working!

Indeed, and if they aren't (generally only the 9-car services due to various issues which will hopefully be resolved shortly) then there is no excuse for not using the paper back-up method that's been used for decades.

[jamestheredengine]

In my experience of paper reservations the normal reaction to an empty reserved seat is to check the originating station and, if it has been passed, use the seat.

Then Broadgage comes back from the buffet

Doesn't Broadgage have an overcoat to leave on his seat?

[froome]

In my experience of paper reservations the normal reaction to an empty reserved seat is to check the originating station and, if it has been passed, use the seat.  The same principle can apply to the electronic signs in the IETs^▸ (Intercity Express Train).

That is what I'm sure most of us do, but we are 'in the know'. Just recently, I've overheard on several occasions people looking at a reserved seat and saying to the friends that they can't sit there because it is reserved, even though the reservation was for previously in the journey.

[grahame]

That is what I'm sure most of us do, but we are 'in the know'. Just recently, I've overheard on several occasions people looking at a reserved seat and saying to the friends that they can't sit there because it is reserved, even though the reservation was for previously in the journey.

Indeed - many readers of this forum will be aware that an unoccupied seat marked "reserved from Par to Totnes" is available for them from Exeter to Reading, but the geographic knowledge needed is likely beyond people taking a touring holiday in the UK^▸ (United Kingdom).     And is a seat "reserved from Chippenham to London Paddington" available for a passenger from Newton Abbott to Bristol Temple Meads?

Electronic / updating systems can clarify some of the concerns by removing expired reservations, as indeed can some chap or chaps  removing expired paper tags.   I still think it would be helpful to reduce the proportion of reservations made but not taken up then we could see the wood for the trees.

[jamestheredengine]

A "survival of the fittest" approach where those who move fastest & have the sharpest elbows have the best chance of a seat would most likely have much worse outcomes......fancy being the TM^‡(resolve) who has to sort that out? Or perhaps you'd like to take your chance & stand from Plymouth to Paddington one Sunday afternoon?

It's precisely the long journeys that are disadvantaged by reservations. It's even worse on Cross Country (no thanks to those Voyagers managing in four cars the same seating capacity as a three-car 175). You can stand from Plymouth to York because of people getting unnecessary online reservations for a random scatter of miscellaneous 20-minute journeys. To a lesser extent, we get it on the London trains with reservations for journeys wholly within England on the Welsh trains and reservations wholly east of Cogload Junction on the South West ones.

[JayMac]

I'd contend that someone travelling from Plymouth to York is very rarely doing so as a last minute trip. So they should really have their own seat reservation. Even if they haven't made a seperate reservation with a walk-up ticket then the '10 Minute Reservation' option is available to them too. And, as they are boarding the train at its origin (save for the one or two that start back at Penzance), then seat availability will be at its greatest.

[grahame]

I'd contend that someone travelling from Plymouth to York is very rarely doing so as a last minute trip. So they should really have their own seat reservation. Even if they haven't made a seperate reservation with a walk-up ticket then the '10 Minute Reservation' option is available to them too. And, as they are boarding the train at its origin (save for the one or two that start back at Penzance), then seat availability will be at its greatest.

There's a very interesting (and good) argument for different rules for reservations for journeys of over a certain time or distance - back to the old "what's the Cross Country franchise for" discussion. As ever, two different rule sets would make for interesting boundary oddities.

[Bob_Blakey]

A little late to this thread but here goes anyway:

From the National Rail Conditions of Travel
3.3. Unless you have made a reservation please note that your Ticket does not automatically entitle you to a seat...

which I interpret to mean that obtaining a reservation does entitle me to occupy the seat that I have reserved unless the CIS^▸ (Customer Information System) / Train Manager specifically announces that the reservation system on the service in question has been suspended. In the absence of such an announcement I will continue to regard the lack of paper and/or electronic seat reservations as irrelevant, and, if the train is very busy, will politely ask any passenger occupying 'my' seat to move. I have only ever had one refusal, on a Cross Country service, and since the Train Manager declined to do their job properly I was forced to claim the appropriate compensation.

The expectation I have of all businesses with which I deal is that any customer service process specified in the 'T&Cs' is implemented and managed properly. Otherwise the exercise is completely pointless.

[Red Squirrel]

That is what I'm sure most of us do, but we are 'in the know'. Just recently, I've overheard on several occasions people looking at a reserved seat and saying to the friends that they can't sit there because it is reserved, even though the reservation was for previously in the journey.

Indeed - many readers of this forum will be aware that an unoccupied seat marked "reserved from Par to Totnes" is available for them from Exeter to Reading, but the geographic knowledge needed is likely beyond people taking a touring holiday in the UK^▸ (United Kingdom).     And is a seat "reserved from Chippenham to London Paddington" available for a passenger from Newton Abbott to Bristol Temple Meads?

Electronic / updating systems can clarify some of the concerns by removing expired reservations, as indeed can some chap or chaps  removing expired paper tags.   I still think it would be helpful to reduce the proportion of reservations made but not taken up then we could see the wood for the trees.

If only someone could develop some some of global, let's call it, 'positioning system' that would allow a train to in a sense 'know where it is'; the reservation system would then be able to indicate whether the seats were reserved for the current stretch of the journey and remove the reservations once their endpoint was passed. I know that this is the stuff of science fiction, and any such system would no doubt be prohibitively expensive, but we can dream...

[grahame]

If only someone could develop some some of global, let's call it, 'positioning system' that would allow a train to in a sense 'know where it is'; the reservation system would then be able to indicate whether the seats were reserved for the current stretch of the journey and remove the reservations once their endpoint was passed. I know that this is the stuff of science fiction, and any such system would no doubt be prohibitively expensive, but we can dream...

Oddly .. I had a similar dream to the extent it's felt like reality from time to time 

The problem is not so much pantomime reservations ("it's behind you") which can be deal with in your way, but ones ahead.  I get on a Cross Country train at Bristol / last minute change of plans (e.g. my connection missed to the train I was supposed to be on) and I see a seat reserved from Dunbar to Dundee.   Can I use it from Bristol to Newcastle?  From Bristol to Edinburgh?   

[stuving]

If only someone could develop some some of global, let's call it, 'positioning system' that would allow a train to in a sense 'know where it is'; the reservation system would then be able to indicate whether the seats were reserved for the current stretch of the journey and remove the reservations once their endpoint was passed. I know that this is the stuff of science fiction, and any such system would no doubt be prohibitively expensive, but we can dream...

I wonder how much of the IEP^▸ (Intercity Express Program / Project.) specification was derived from dreams? The relevant snippets say:

• displays for each seat must indicate whether that seat is free, reserved for part of or for the remainder of the journey. The method of display must be easy for passengers to interpret quickly when boarding, and shall seek to convey an overall impression of the extent of reserved and unreserved seats within the saloon; and
• displays must be automatically updated throughout a journey to indicate the current reservation status for the remainder of the journey.

I gather the current issues are to do with the data uploading process; the on-board software rejects a whole train's data if some parts don't match its expected format. In other words, it has so far been beyond the wit of GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway) and Hitachi to make this - not exactly unprecedented - process work.

Or maybe it's their suppliers? I don't know who does their reservation software (if it's not in-house), but the IEP on-board system was supplied by Televic Rail. They show the project as "2013-2017", but presumably continue to support it. Televic is Belgian (at least its HQ^▸ (Headquarters) is), with a rather anonymous Rail UK^▸ (United Kingdom) presence - in a rent-by-the-room Regus building at Manchester Airport.

(Random thought: do such Regus offices have reservation displays outide each office or above each workstation?)

[rogerpatenall]

Virgin West Coast have had the electronic reservations system for many years now. And even on the 50-70% of journeys where it is functioning, they haven't been able to present a reliable system, so I'm not holding my breath for GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway) to crack it.

[didcotdean]

A little late to this thread but here goes anyway:

From the National Rail Conditions of Travel
3.3. Unless you have made a reservation please note that your Ticket does not automatically entitle you to a seat...

which I interpret to mean that obtaining a reservation does entitle me to occupy the seat that I have reserved unless the CIS^▸ (Customer Information System) / Train Manager specifically announces that the reservation system on the service in question has been suspended.

As I see it, it means you are entitled to compensation under 30.1 (If the train you intended to use is cancelled, delayed, or your reservation will not be honoured, and you decide not to travel, you may return the unused Ticket to the original retailer or Train Company from whom it was purchased, where you will be given a full refund with no administration fee …)

If there are no reservations marked, then de facto the reservation hasn't been honoured. I believe GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway) gives some kind of compensation beyond NRCOT^▸ (National Rail Conditions of Travel) to people with reservations who don't get any seat but do travel; never happened to me so I don't know what it is but it is referred to frequently by the twitter crew.

Increasingly the fact that there are no marked reservations is given on the platform train information.

[basset44]

Hi All,

From the new Passenger's Charter of Transport For Wales Railways.

Compensation for seat reservations not being honoured
Seat reservations are available on many of our longer-distance services, free of charge. If, for any reason, we cannot honour your seat reservation please speak to the Conductor onboard as they will try to find you another seat on the train. If this is not possible and you have to stand for more than 15 minutes of the journey, please ask the Conductor to endorse your ticket.
You may send your endorsed ticket and details of your journey to our Customer Relations department as we will compensate you to the value of 5% of a single ticket or relevant portion of a return ticket for every 15 minutes that you have stand, up to a maximum of the total cost of your journey ticket. You will also need to tell us how you would like us to pay your compensation. Please see the section “How will my compensation be paid?” for the options available. The above does not affect any legal rights or remedies you would otherwise have under the Consumer Rights
Act 2015.