New Station for Shepton Mallet?

[whole diary]

[johnneyw]

The forum members considered responses to the announcement suggest to me a different question:
If you were Mendip District Council with the disposition and possible resources to build/reopen a station on your turf, where should it be?

[eightonedee]

or - for simplicity - "Shepton Mallet Road" (or Somerton Road, or

Probably "Wincanton and Shepton Mallet Parkway"!

On a more practical note, I expect that the problem in the "hole" between the main lines from Westbury to Taunton, Taunton to Bristol, Bristol to Bath, and the line back to Westbury is a combination of not enough residents to generate traffic, and the costs of reinstating any part of the closed railways in the area which probably never paid their way when open would be prohibitive having regard to the terrain - it's a shame, but once closed they were probably lost forever,

[WSW Frome]

As a Mendip ratepayer it rather pains me to see they propose spending good money on this study. I had never known that Flying Pig farming was so endemic in the District.

Mendip DC^▸ (Direct Current) have precisely one station within their patch and that is Frome. I have never seen the District Council take the slightest interest in rail travel before.

Castle Cary (in South Somerset District) is certainly well within striking distance of Shepton Mallet and Bruton is an alternative for some more rural areas. SW Coaches provide a reasonable bus service from Shepton to Castle Cary, although I guess the frequency could be enhanced. If there is to be any sensible outcome from this then the bus service should be enhanced to promote Castle Cary as a "Regional" or "Parkway" style station with good access to Shepton, Wells and possibly Glastonbury.

These towns have a surprisingly good bus service (First Group!) to Bath and Bristol (enhanced in recent times) with a good frequency and service pattern (both evening and weekends). The general road conditions do not make for a speedy journey but still likely to be better, or as good as, any indirect rail options proposed. 

[Red Squirrel]

As a Mendip ratepayer it rather pains me to see they propose spending good money on this study. I had never known that Flying Pig farming was so endemic in the District.

Mendip DC^▸ (Direct Current) have precisely one station within their patch and that is Frome. I have never seen the District Council take the slightest interest in rail travel before.

Castle Cary (in South Somerset District) is certainly well within striking distance of Shepton Mallet and Bruton is an alternative for some more rural areas. SW Coaches provide a reasonable bus service from Shepton to Castle Cary, although I guess the frequency could be enhanced. If there is to be any sensible outcome from this then the bus service should be enhanced to promote Castle Cary as a "Regional" or "Parkway" style station with good access to Shepton, Wells and possibly Glastonbury.

These towns have a surprisingly good bus service (First Group!) to Bath and Bristol (enhanced in recent times) with a good frequency and service pattern (both evening and weekends). The general road conditions do not make for a speedy journey but still likely to be better, or as good as, any indirect rail options proposed. 

According to travelwest.info, you can get from Shepton Mallet to Bristol in just under two hours by bus. To my mind that means that these places are effectively cut off from the region's economic powerhouse. Obviously I am invoking the spirit of porcine aviation, but assuming a 70 mile/hr railway to Norton with maybe a 50mile/hr route onwards to Bristol via the B&NS, you ought to be able to get to there in well under an hour - a pain, but doable.

Now it may well be the case that economic development is considered undesirable in East Somerset, and quite possibly the citizens of Shepton and Norton Radstock are happy that their children presumably all  leave the area to get education and work - if so, then yes, this idea is nonsense.

[martyjon]

I despair at how out of touch or should I say 'THICK' some civic leaders are. Look at a map showing Shepton Mallet and one will find that a station exists just down the road from Shepton, through Cannards Grave and Evercreech what less than a 10 minute drive away at Castle Cary.   

The above was my initial post on this thread but as I usually post with my brain out of gear I have more thoughts on the subject.

To sanction £320.000 to be spent on a study into/enhancement to Public Transport in the Mendip DC^▸ (Direct Current) area to me, as does another forum member who is actually a MDC council taxpayer, will be a complete waste of money.

When the commissioned report is published and it goes into detail that Yes, a rail link to Shepton Mallet should be provided much to the joy of the Council Leader. I can see his eyes glowing with the thoughts that the gold leaf letraset will finally surface from the councils safe to christen the currently blank Roll of Honour board in the council chamber of council leaders who actually did something to promote public transport in the district.

However I feel the glow in his eyes will all too soon dissipate into sadness when Network Rail comes along holding their paws out for the local areas billions of £'s contribution towards the project cost.

That sadness will turn to tears when the Council Leader sees that gold leaf letraset being consigned to the councils safe whilst the black letraset is removed from the stationery cupboard to engrave their name on the other Council Leaders Roll of Honour of useless gits who done BA^» (British Airways - about) for the areas residents.

Experience tells me of councils absolute waste of money.

About 7 years ago as part of the Greater Bristol Bus Network (GBBN) many of the bus shelters in the area, Yate / Chipping Sodbury, were upgraded to what we were told would be modern shelters with lighting for passengers security and real time displays. The new shelters arrived as flat packs. They are of stainless steel frames, were assembled in the contractors yard and delivered to site and installed. They have a seated area, an oval shaped bar extending the length of the shelter on which waiting passengers might like to rest their asses on while waiting for that late running service. The bus shelters also have electrical boxes to connect to a mains power supply and feed the shelters lighting. included in the flat pack, and power the shelters real time display. 3 out of the 4 nearest bus shelters to my home, as do many of the remaining shelters in the area, still await connection to the mains power supply and installation of the real time displays.

By comparison the shelters provided over the border. in Bristol. have proper chair seats with armrests, the shelters lighting and real time displays are connected up and working and is, supposedly, all part of the same project funded through a Central Government Public Transport Capital Grant Scheme.  Grrr.

[martyjon]

Another thought, put the £320,000 into a pot to support a Park (in Shepton Mallet) and Ride (to Castle Cary (Parkway) service, oh no, says the council leader, I've got my chauffeur driven limo and I'm not giving up that to provide a bus service for the areas residents and visitors.

It was funny, one morning recently I was in Bristol's City Hall at a transport meeting and after it concluded a South Gloucestershire councillor who had previously held the post of chair of the authorities Planning, Highways and Transport Committee asked me what number bus route went to Kingswood from the City Centre for the afternoons meeting at Kingswood Civic Centre and where was the stop. Out of touch, I'd say so..

[grahame]

Taking a look at Shepton Mallet and Castle Cary (current station) ... main destination wanted from Shepton Mallet (at least initially until new flows built) would be directly NORTH of there (Bristol), but the station is to the SOUTH and the rail line runs EAST / WEST. 

It's about 40 km from Shepton Mallet into Bristol ... and on the railway there's not another station for 40km to the west.  100km rail journey Castle Cary to Bristol via Taunton, 75km rail journey Castle Cary to Bristol via Westbury.   Mind you ... extend the line from Mendip Vale into Shepton Mallet, or reopen Frome via Radstock to Shepton Mallet and you're still looking at the best part of 80km by rail to Bristol when it's 40km as the bus drives.

Answer? Don't know. Just setting out the geography.   Saw mention of Radstock to Bath via Midford and Limpley Stoke - another pipe dream perhaps (but some pipe dreams have come about) and that extended to Shepton Mallet would cut down the mileage to Bristol (and Bath) and provide for new multiple access points to the rail network along the way.

[martyjon]

Taking note of Grahame's post of a 40Km most direct route Shepton Mallet to Bristol, how about a solution such as a tramway laid along the A37, daft, I know, I'll admit it but then I'm not a civic dignitary drawing thousands of pounds in allowances funded from council taxpayers.

[Red Squirrel]

Taking a look at Shepton Mallet and Castle Cary (current station) ... main destination wanted from Shepton Mallet (at least initially until new flows built) would be directly NORTH of there (Bristol), but the station is to the SOUTH and the rail line runs EAST / WEST. 

It's about 40 km from Shepton Mallet into Bristol ... and on the railway there's not another station for 40km to the west.  100km rail journey Castle Cary to Bristol via Taunton, 75km rail journey Castle Cary to Bristol via Westbury.   Mind you ... extend the line from Mendip Vale into Shepton Mallet, or reopen Frome via Radstock to Shepton Mallet and you're still looking at the best part of 80km by rail to Bristol when it's 40km as the bus drives.

Answer? Don't know. Just setting out the geography.   Saw mention of Radstock to Bath via Midford and Limpley Stoke - another pipe dream perhaps (but some pipe dreams have come about) and that extended to Shepton Mallet would cut down the mileage to Bristol (and Bath) and provide for new multiple access points to the rail network along the way.

I think that's the key point - Castle Cary is of limited use for local commuters. The S&D^▸ (Somerset and Dorset Joint Railway) route, however, connects two economic hotspots - Bristol/Bath and Bournemouth/Poole, and for much of it was a double track main line suitable for reasonably high speed running. The weak point is north of Norton Radstock, but by making a new link here to the B&NS route you could connect rather nicely (if at reduced speed) through to the junctions to the east of Temple Meads, and thence (for freight, maybe) to the north or Wales.

When I quipped that this just requires "a few billion pounds and a huge amount of political will", in reality it's just the political will that would be needed - as we all know, a few billion quid is easy to find if you want to.

[johnneyw]

This is why I started the thread. Very soon after reading the BBC^» (British Broadcasting Corporation - home page) article and a quick look at the OS^▸ (Ordnance Survey) map it became clear that what the District Council was saying was very ambiguous. It seemed there would be no logical location for a Shepton Mallet Parkway station without reopening or at least upgrading some line. If either was the case, doing that would be a much bigger story than just opening a station.
It all depends on the scope of this report, which we don't know but unless Mendip DC^▸ (Direct Current) have become advocates of ambitious "big idea" rail solutions with their hands on the required funds, then I think the announcement may just have been a headline grabber.
Mind you, stranger things (may) have happened.......

[Bmblbzzz]

This talk of economic powerhouses makes me think the railways are mostly (not just for East Somerset) pointing in the wrong directions. Or maybe it's that they turn up their noses at mere regional powerhouses and have their eye on the glittering streets of London. Another obvious example where regional-to-regional powerhouse connectivity is slowly and painfully being addressed (or rather, readdressed after sixty years or so) is Oxford to Cambridge. Then there's Manchester to Leeds, which perhaps benefits in this respect from being further away The Glittering Streets. And there must be others too.

[ellendune]

This talk of economic powerhouses makes me think the railways are mostly (not just for East Somerset) pointing in the wrong directions. Or maybe it's that they turn up their noses at mere regional powerhouses and have their eye on the glittering streets of London. Another obvious example where regional-to-regional powerhouse connectivity is slowly and painfully being addressed (or rather, readdressed after sixty years or so) is Oxford to Cambridge. Then there's Manchester to Leeds, which perhaps benefits in this respect from being further away The Glittering Streets. And there must be others too.

Yes. I think that this is more of a problem from the closures than the original routes. Places like Shepton mallet were well served originally, but lost all their non metropolitan routes in the Beeching era. 

However, some routes never achieved their potential because of vested interests (e.g. Didcot Newbury and Southampton was only ever operated as a local line when it should have been a key route from the North East and Midlands to the South coast. It suited the GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway) to route the trains via Reading (more miles more money) and it suited the LSWR^▸ (London South Western Railway) not to have a direct route on their patch that did not give them much income).   

[martyjon]

I am intrigued, decades after the railway deserted Shepton Mallet and years after direct bus services to Bristol ceased this tinpot councillor crawls out of the woodwork to make this ground breaking announcement. Oh yes, its local council election time in a few weeks and they must draw the electorates attention to a 'greatly needed facility' in the hope of persuading their constituents to vote for them in the forthcoming May council elections on this manifesto so they can crawl back into the woodwork for another 45 months and do NOTHING.

[eightonedee]

This talk of economic powerhouses makes me think the railways are mostly (not just for East Somerset) pointing in the wrong directions. Or maybe it's that they turn up their noses at mere regional powerhouses and have their eye on the glittering streets of London. Another obvious example where regional-to-regional powerhouse connectivity is slowly and painfully being addressed (or rather, readdressed after sixty years or so) is Oxford to Cambridge. Then there's Manchester to Leeds, which perhaps benefits in this respect from being further away The Glittering Streets. And there must be others too.

I am not sure that's right! It's more complicated than that, I think, and some cases goes back to the haphazard way the railways were promoted and built. It is a shame that there was never a proper equivalent to the North Downs route around the north of London. I appreciate that the Chilterns get in the way, but something running all the way along the foot of its northern escarpment would have been a useful cross-country route. Am I right in thinking that the Wallingford and Watlington branches were originally going to form part of such a route?

Then when they were built, there was often not enough money to give adequate capacity for use as a strategic route - the DN&S being an example, only single track until it was partly doubled for the Second World War. The position is compounded by some of the decisions made when rationalisation took place - why (for example) keep a connection between Barnstaple and Exeter, but not between King's Lynn and Norwich? There is also an element of wisdom after the event, too. In the 1950s and 1960s rail travel was in precipitous decline, and global warming had not been "invented". It is not difficult to see why, in the context of a perceived need to cut growing losses, the DN&S was closed to concentrate traffic on the main line to Reading, then via Basingstoke.

The problem is that we have been left with two problems - the lack of some useful routes across the country, notably SW to NE south of the Trent Valley, and some areas (eg this area of Somerset, large parts of Norfolk, East Yorkshire and North Cornwall/West Devon) which are off the rail network. With the benefit of hindsight it would have been prudent to mothball the formations and infrastructure, but clearly no-one envisaged that the tide would turn. Add to this the apparently horrendous cots of reinstatement quoted recently on this forum and it becomes difficult to justify new or reinstated lines in less populated areas.

Perhaps the answer is a supported network of limited stop bus/coach services connecting to convenient stations on the retained network, which I think is the French approach, albeit that from what I have read here and elsewhere this is not always sustained either.

 I do though think we need to campaign for more/continued investment in routes like the XC^▸ (Cross Country Trains (franchise)) network, North Downs and the Cardiff/Bristol to Southampton/Portsmouth/South Coast routes which tend to be cinderella services, and lost in a lot of the noise about "Northern Powerhouses".  The places connected - the South Wales cities, Bristol, the Thames Valley centres (Oxford, Reading) and the south coast conurbations from Poole to Brighton and intervening towns together form a substantial part of the UK^▸ (United Kingdom)'s economy.

[ellendune]

Then when they were built, there was often not enough money to give adequate capacity for use as a strategic route - the DN&S being an example, only single track until it was partly doubled for the Second World War. 

True - but that was the only time the DN&S was ever used as a through trunk route.  The GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway) treated it as a branch line taking only local traffic. 

The position is compounded by some of the decisions made when rationalisation took place - It is not difficult to see why, in the context of a perceived need to cut growing losses, the DN&S was closed to concentrate traffic on the main line to Reading, then via Basingstoke.

Yes but perhaps if the DN&S had been taken over by the GCR^» (Gloucester - next trains) rather than the GWR it might have become a trunk route to Southampton and it might have survived.