Tonight at Reading (01-12-2018) - Useless Staff

[whole diary]

[CJB666]

Clearly displayed 17.03 local advertised on 15A for Ealing Broadway (aka Paddington). Hundreds waiting for it.

A train turned up - however the display then changed and said that it was the 17.05 to Redhill - many got on thinking it was for London. No staff corrected the info. This left full at 17.08.

No sign of the 17.03 though which had disappeared from the displays.

Then staff said that this was now approaching 15A - it wasn't.

Staff then said that it was waiting on 13A. Hundreds traipsed over to 13. The staff there said that this was actually the 17.38 to Ealing Broadway.

We all traipsed back to 15A. Still no train there.

The staff there then said that the 17.03 was now on 12. Over the bridge we all went yet again. No train was there.

Then just like magic the 17.03 turned up on 12 but 15 minutes late. The display still said that it was due on 15A.

But what's the point of having staff who haven't a clue which platforms trains are departing from? Pathetic.

[Gordon the Blue Engine]

Yet another example of GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway)’s appalling Customer Information systems, many other examples of which have popped up under other topics.   It’s all down to GWR’s senior management who, despite knowing the consequences, do not provide the resources to ensure that the screens provide accurate and timely information.   

Don’t blame the platform staff, they don’t get information any more than the passengers do.

[Dispatch Box]

Clearly displayed 17.03 local advertised on 15A for Ealing Broadway (aka Paddington). Hundreds waiting for it.

A train turned up - however the display then changed and said that it was the 17.05 to Redhill - many got on thinking it was for London. No staff corrected the info. This left full at 17.08.

No sign of the 17.03 though which had disappeared from the displays.

Then staff said that this was now approaching 15A - it wasn't.

Staff then said that it was waiting on 13A. Hundreds traipsed over to 13. The staff there said that this was actually the 17.38 to Ealing Broadway.

We all traipsed back to 15A. Still no train there.

The staff there then said that the 17.03 was now on 12. Over the bridge we all went yet again. No train was there.

Then just like magic the 17.03 turned up on 12 but 15 minutes late. The display still said that it was due on 15A.

But what's the point of having staff who haven't a clue which platforms trains are departing from? Pathetic.

Sounds a bit like musical platforms.

And what were route control at Swindon telling them, they are the ones in the know.

[bobm]

To an extent although the final decision is down to the signaller at Didcot who sets the route.

[Dispatch Box]

To an extent although the final decision is down to the signaller at Didcot who sets the route.

I Always thought the TVSC^» (Thames Valley Signalling Centre - about) Contacted Swindon to tell them what they are doing.

[a-driver]

Everyday, a plan is produced which details which platform every train will use for that 24 hour period.  As far as possible they stick to that plan.  All this information is loaded into CIS^▸ (Customer Information System) screens.

When disruption occurs the signallers will try to get trains through the station as quickly as possible.  They can have a train sat at a signal outside the station and the first station staff will know of a platform change is when the signaller sets the route.  It’s not physically possible to give advance information to station staff, doing so would just cause bigger delays.

Station staff have access to signalling maps of the station and it’s approaches.  These show individual train headcodes.  Sometimes you can sit and watch the signaller changes these headcodes when they are provided the information from Swindon, basically they’re juggling trains. 

Whilst it may seem appalling, what they are actually doing is getting trains moving, and as quickly as possible.  As a result, some decisions will be last minute.  It’s pretty much the same any most major locations.  Where I work now, if there’s disruption you look at the signalling maps to know what platform to go to.  As soon as the headcodes moves to occupy a platform the information screens update automatically.

[Dispatch Box]

Everyday, a plan is produced which details which platform every train will use for that 24 hour period.  As far as possible they stick to that plan.  All this information is loaded into CIS^▸ (Customer Information System) screens.

When disruption occurs the signallers will try to get trains through the station as quickly as possible.  They can have a train sat at a signal outside the station and the first station staff will know of a platform change is when the signaller sets the route.  It’s not physically possible to give advance information to station staff, doing so would just cause bigger delays.

Station staff have access to signalling maps of the station and it’s approaches.  These show individual train headcodes.  Sometimes you can sit and watch the signaller changes these headcodes when they are provided the information from Swindon, basically they’re juggling trains. 

Whilst it may seem appalling, what they are actually doing is getting trains moving, and as quickly as possible.  As a result, some decisions will be last minute.  It’s pretty much the same any most major locations.  Where I work now, if there’s disruption you look at the signalling maps to know what platform to go to.  As soon as the headcodes moves to occupy a platform the information screens update automatically.

Sorry but does,nt seem to work like that in Gloucester though, When a platform change is made, the platform staff seem to always do the moving, they just contact signalman to ask permission, then they contact cis and they manually change the screens. If the signaller puts a train into platform 4, that was booked on 2, and goes into 4 the screen won,t change, the staff have to phone cis and ask for an update manually.

[a-driver]

Sorry but does,nt seem to work like that in Gloucester though, When a platform change is made, the platform staff seem to always do the moving, they just contact signalman to ask permission, then they contact cis and they manually change the screens. If the signaller puts a train into platform 4, that was booked on 2, and goes into 4 the screen won,t change, the staff have to phone cis and ask for an update manually.

Gloucester doesn’t have the same level of traffic as somewhere like Reading though. Gloucester will probably be controlled by one signaller and has a bit of flexibility when it comes to platforming services, Reading will also be controlled by one or two signallers. Replatforming something at Reading will, more than likely, have a knock on effect tonothwe services.
There’s only so much a signaller can do before they become overloaded 

[grahame]

Due to unscheduled operational 'incidents' - ranging from train faults and staff out of hours through to platform delays due to slow-load passengers - there will always be times when late platform changes happen, as a better option than holding up services as they wait for the originally planned platform.  I suspect we would all prefer the platform switch to serious delays.

The issue comes in informing the passengers - especially where there's a last-miunute decision.  I was at Swindon last Saturday evening for just over an hour, and there were sufficient main line delays to make the whole thing of which train was at which platform a bit of a lottery.  However, the boards were being reasonably updated and a free-jacked customer host was referring to them and helping passengers; if you're looking for Bristol Parkway, you need to know it's the Swansea train, for example. No big backlog of people appearing to need help, and assuming that the dateline and platform 4 desk were being equally helpful, just about as good as could have been down as far as the staff members and boards are concerned.  I did wonder if some sort of handheld device might have helped the green jacket rather than having to constantly check the passenger screen - but perhaps that method works for her.

The "17:36 for Westbury" was parked in the bay - 2 car 158, switched off and locked -  and the new waiting room filled.  At 17:33, a change of platform was announced to platform 3 (!) and we all moved; another 2 car 158 (SWR^» (South Western Railway - about) colours) pulled in - 17:34.  A very quick turn around and back off in the other direction at 17:38.  But I noted that everyone on platform 2 HAD made their way to the alternative train, and furthermore an on train announcement that "This is the Westbury train calling at ... and NOT the Gloucester and Cheltenham service" provided a safety net the other way.  I did not see any rapid exits from the train at this announcement, so I think everyone had got the message anyway.

Going back to the original query / comment in this thread, was there an announcement in the Gatwick train which had come in to the platform where the London was expected to the effect of where it was headed, before it actually closed its doors?  If so, then I'm going to suggest we may be looking at a bit of a storm in a teacup here, with alternatives available perhaps leading to significant holdups if trains waited for their original platforms.

Of course, so much of the solution would be for us to get back to a much more reliable railway where last minute changes shrink away to being very, very rare events.

[stuving]

Just to record what the data feeds (via RTT^» (Real Time Trains - website) and OTT^▸ (Open Train Times website)) have for those trains:

2O49 17:04 to Redhill departed on time. Booked platform 5 but actual platform not recorded. I thought switching trains from 4-6 over to 12-15 wasn't a problem, but there may be some bits of the underlying system that think these are still different stations!

2P66 17:03 Didcot to Paddington, booked P15 but departed P12 17:07 (4L) and ran a few minutes late to PAD^» (Paddington (London) - next trains).

2P67 17:18 to Paddington departed on time from P13 as booked.

I imagine that for most people 2P66 15 minutes late and 2P67 are very hard to tell apart - though if you want one of the smaller stations called at by one but not both the difference matters!

There are trains (and even more stock movements) that are not recorded on those feeds, but if 2P66 was clocked all the way down its route no more than 4L it can't have departed 15L!

[BBM]

2O49 17:04 to Redhill departed on time. Booked platform 5 but actual platform not recorded. I thought switching trains from 4-6 over to 12-15 wasn't a problem, but there may be some bits of the underlying system that think these are still different stations!

I've had a look at Open Rail Live Railway Data (http://www.charlwoodhouse.co.uk). It seems to have two separate entries for Reading - 'RDNGSTN RDG^‡(resolve) Reading' and 'RDNG4AB RDZ Reading Platforms 4A/4B'. Searching for the former doesn't give any information for platforms 4-6 but the latter only gives information for those three. (RTT^» (Real Time Trains - website) doesn't recognise 'RDZ' as a location.)

Here's the record for 2O49 on Saturday: http://www.charlwoodhouse.co.uk/rail/liverail/train/13067093/01/12/18

The entry for the departure of the train is timed at 02/12/18 00:56:01 which is maybe some sort of default as presumably the system didn't record it? Otherwise the first 'normal' entry is timed at 01/12/18 17:06:29 when it was 1 late at Reading Spur Junction.

[stuving]

Perhaps I was a bit too offhand in what I said there. I know the reporting system does still have a separate reporting identity for Reading Southern, but the question is about timetable changes.

Based on my observations (and I'm certainly not an expert on the data systems), the reports we see are of timetabled movements and the actual reports that can be matched with them. If a train diverts to a new route, with different stations on it, then ideally its timetable entry is replaced by a new one shown as "STP". Then its progress can be shown against that.

If the change happens too late for that, the old timetabled train is shown with no reports against it, and the unmatched reports just vanish. But platform changes within a station can be made without an STP entry, and show up in the feeds and can be identified as "not as booked". The question at Reading is whether this can be done between the two bits of station, or whether actual movements in its new platform only show in the record if there was an STP entry for them.

If that's the case, I'd not noticed it before - but I can't say that is unlikely!

[Dispatch Box]

Due to unscheduled operational 'incidents' - ranging from train faults and staff out of hours through to platform delays due to slow-load passengers - there will always be times when late platform changes happen, as a better option than holding up services as they wait for the originally planned platform.  I suspect we would all prefer the platform switch to serious delays.

The issue comes in informing the passengers - especially where there's a last-miunute decision.  I was at Swindon last Saturday evening for just over an hour, and there were sufficient main line delays to make the whole thing of which train was at which platform a bit of a lottery.  However, the boards were being reasonably updated and a free-jacked customer host was referring to them and helping passengers; if you're looking for Bristol Parkway, you need to know it's the Swansea train, for example. No big backlog of people appearing to need help, and assuming that the dateline and platform 4 desk were being equally helpful, just about as good as could have been down as far as the staff members and boards are concerned.  I did wonder if some sort of handheld device might have helped the green jacket rather than having to constantly check the passenger screen - but perhaps that method works for her.

The "17:36 for Westbury" was parked in the bay - 2 car 158, switched off and locked -  and the new waiting room filled.  At 17:33, a change of platform was announced to platform 3 (!) and we all moved; another 2 car 158 (SWR^» (South Western Railway - about) colours) pulled in - 17:34.  A very quick turn around and back off in the other direction at 17:38.  But I noted that everyone on platform 2 HAD made their way to the alternative train, and furthermore an on train announcement that "This is the Westbury train calling at ... and NOT the Gloucester and Cheltenham service" provided a safety net the other way.  I did not see any rapid exits from the train at this announcement, so I think everyone had got the message anyway.

Going back to the original query / comment in this thread, was there an announcement in the Gatwick train which had come in to the platform where the London was expected to the effect of where it was headed, before it actually closed its doors?  If so, then I'm going to suggest we may be looking at a bit of a storm in a teacup here, with alternatives available perhaps leading to significant holdups if trains waited for their original platforms.

Of course, so much of the solution would be for us to get back to a much more reliable railway where last minute changes shrink away to being very, very rare events.

Yes, I Think the people for Gloucester would of probably been waiting on Platform 1, At that time the train comes from Paddington.

[onthecushions]

Reading has more platforms than Paddington, so should have a P/A announcer.

The staff are not useless - just the IT specifiers who produced the faulty CIS^▸ (Customer Information System) displays.

Redingensian,

OTC

[Dispatch Box]

Reading has more platforms than Paddington, so should have a P/A announcer.

The staff are not useless - just the IT specifiers who produced the faulty CIS^▸ (Customer Information System) displays.

Redingensian,

OTC

Weired, Do you not have an automated system to announce trains, like in Swindon. I also thought Reading would of had excellent displays and they worked.

The best station I know for announcing is Bristol TM^‡(resolve), nice, loud and clear.