Advent quiz 2019

[whole diary]

[grahame]

New Passage Halt

If you look REALLY hard at the name board you can just make it out. I am going to guess 1961

That's about the date I was given ... and perhaps I should have done a bit more vandalising of that name board. Easy when you know, of course!

[grahame]

Tuesday 4th December 2018 - the Coffee Shop Advent Quiz.

1.1 - Where was this picture taken?

1.2 - And in which year?

1.3 Where was this picture taken?

[johnneyw]

Tuesday 4th December 2018 - the Coffee Shop Advent Quiz.

1.1 - Where was this picture taken?

1.2 - And in which year?

1.3 Where was this picture taken?

Quick late night/early morning punt on 3: Oldfield Park?

G'night.

[martyjon]

Tuesday 4th December 2018 - the Coffee Shop Advent Quiz.

Its a, cut down, well the rear two coaches, Hastings line DEMU^▸ (Diesel Electric Multiple Unit) but the leading coach is not by reason of the profile of that vehicle against the rear two. I'll put it as somewhere between Guildford and Redhill on the South Downs (Reading to Gatwick) line when services on that line continued from Redhill to Tonbridge.

[grahame]

Quick late night/early morning punt on 3: Oldfield Park?

Spot on

Its a, cut down, well the rear two coaches, Hastings line DEMU^▸ (Diesel Electric Multiple Unit) but the leading coach is not by reason of the profile of that vehicle against the rear two. I'll put it as somewhere between Guildford and Redhill on the South Downs (Reading to Gatwick) line when services on that line continued from Redhill to Tonbridge.

I cannot fault your logic or conclusions.

[ellendune]

From the landscape I would put it near to or east of Redhill.

[martyjon]

Gomshall ?

[grahame]

Gomshall ?

Yes indeed.

In those days, the Reading to Redhill service continued on (via its reversal at Redhill) to Tonbridge rather than to Gatwick.  An unelectrified line in a sea of third rail, these lines were served by a fleet of around half a dozen "Tadpoles" - spare 6 car Hastings line demus with narrow bodies were split in two, the resultant halves trimmed back by a further carriage, and a wide bodied driving trailer from an electric set added.  Odd looking things and from memory what a long time they took from Tonbridge to Reading, calling (I felt) at every blade of grass along the way.

The Redhill to Tonbridge section started life under the South Eastern Railway as the first main line to the Kent coast / channel ports.  Map from 1840.

(Public domain map / WikiPedia)

When the Sevenoaks cutoff opened in 1868, the section dropped to being a secondary line - a relief line if there were problems on the new Knockholt - Sevenoaks - Hildenborough.  A merger/partnership of the South Eastern Railway with the London Chatham and Dover in 1899 gave the (combined) operator other routes to the ports, and the line dropped further off the radar - taking a step back onto the radar in 1993 when it was electrified, through services from London to replace the Tonbridge - Reading service, and a diversionary route for Channel Tunnel (Eurostar) services from Waterloo to Paris and Brussels.

The Redhill to Reading section was also built by South Eastern and opened in 1849, with a view to increasing their reach - very much a single tentacle of a line from their Kentish heartline around to the West of London, avoiding London.  In many way forward thinking ... it's always surprised me that the reversal at Redhill was and still is required.  Gomshall station - on the quiz - is one of those under the flank of the North Downs, clearly seen in the picture.

[stuving]

The Redhill to Reading section was also built by South Eastern and opened in 1849, with a view to increasing their reach - very much a single tentacle of a line from their Kentish heartline around to the West of London, avoiding London.  In many way forward thinking ... it's always surprised me that the reversal at Redhill was and still is required.  Gomshall station - on the quiz - is one of those under the flank of the North Downs, clearly seen in the picture.

Except of course, like so many secondary lines, it wasn't built by the SER itself but by a line-specific company - a Victorian kind of "special-purpose vehicle" - the Reading, Guildford and Reigate Railway Company. It's true that the SER shared directors with the RGRR, and agreed early on to lease and run it; but they also proposed their own bill for part of the route, as did LBSCR, LSWR^▸ (London South Western Railway), plus several new companies. Most of the route was outside SER territory, and involved dealing with the other established (if only for a few years) railways, and while SER's backing was important they were very keen on someone - anyone - else putting up the capital, for which a local identity was essential.

As to why trains have always reversed at Redhill, until not so long ago they ran into Charing Cross - so you'd need to change there instead. That was so not only under the separate companies, but survived nationalisation for a while (into the 50s at least). After that, what would you do instead, for what was now a very minor route? A flat junction, missing Redhill, and unworkable except for so few trains it's not worth it?  A (hugely expensive) flyover, also skipping Redhill? Add a link to one of the lines to enter from the north, despite the terrain, the presence by now of Redhill, and the Quarry Lines?

[Red Squirrel]

Interesting to see Tunbridge on the map, but not its southerly neighbour Royel Tinbrodge Wulls...

[CyclingSid]

The South Eastern ownership is the reason for the disparity in mileage markers coming towards Reading. The line from Wokingham not being measured from either Waterloo or Paddington but presumably from Charing Cross.

[The Tall Controller]

Tuesday 4th December 2018 - the Coffee Shop Advent Quiz.

1.3 Where was this picture taken?

Do you only have images of 150/1s??? Given there's only 2 out there now, you appear to be riding them very frequently.

Closet 150/1 spotter perhaps?! 

[stuving]

The South Eastern ownership is the reason for the disparity in mileage markers coming towards Reading. The line from Wokingham not being measured from either Waterloo or Paddington but presumably from Charing Cross.

Indeed - though in fact by the 50s trains from Reading ran to Victoria or London Bridge instead! Not a sensible commute, obviously, taking over 2¹/₂ hours.

[Lee]

Interesting to see Tunbridge on the map, but not its southerly neighbour Royel Tinbrodge Wulls...

Ond, jost tis ounce, ist nit on famis gramme tipo...

[stuving]

Interesting to see Tunbridge on the map, but not its southerly neighbour Royel Tinbrodge Wulls...

Ond, jost tis ounce, ist nit on famis gramme tipo...

Nor any kind of typo - from Wikipedia:

Until 1870, the town's name was spelt Tunbridge, as shown on old maps including the 1871 Ordnance Survey map and contemporary issues of the Bradshaw railway guide. In 1870, this was changed to Tonbridge by the GPO^‡(resolve)[3] due to confusion with nearby Tunbridge Wells, despite Tonbridge being a much older settlement. Tunbridge Wells has always maintained the same spelling.