Dawlish closures - November 2018

[whole diary]

[TaplowGreen]

Both Up and Down sleeper services cancelled.

What happens to the sleeper passengers in these circumstances? Do GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway) arrange road transport or do they put them in hotels overnight? (Or are they just abandoned and left to their own devices?)

The 21.03 to Plymouth finally left Paddington at 22.20 and was the last service out of Paddington to Taunton and beyond. It is however terminating at Exeter, so not much use to most Sleeper passengers.

So I guess a hotel in London or Reading? I know that GWR ask passengers with berths booked for their mobile numbers and I further believe they are all contacted. But who pays for the hotel?

Several passengers who arrived for the sleeper were booked into the Hilton at Paddington by GWR, and others were provided with road transport - only right and proper.


Earlier in the day customers were being assured that the sleeper would run, it was only much later that this changed and people were told not to travel, so offering them a bed for the night on a bench at Paddington or Reading wouldn't really have been an option...........if you see a taxi driver ordering an Aston Martin you will know where the money came from!

[Umberleigh]

The myth that an alternative to Dawlish would result in the existing line being closed needs to be firmly quashed, as I see its reared its head again on social media. To my mind, its unthinkable that the towns and Bay resorts wouldn’t warrant a rail service, even if rationalised somewhat. And lets be honest, few High Speed service stop at Dawlish and Teignm outhitting or run through to Paignton anyway

[REVUpminster]

The myth that an alternative to Dawlish would result in the existing line being closed needs to be firmly quashed, as I see its reared its head again on social media. To my mind, its unthinkable that the towns and Bay resorts wouldn’t warrant a rail service, even if rationalised somewhat. And lets be honest, few High Speed service stop at Dawlish and Teignm outhitting or run through to Paignton anyway

I think the problem is; would they be so quick to repair any breach?

The plan I saw at Dawlish was to extend the sea wall further into the sea, but this only gives the sea something to smash at. I would put the track on stilts in the sea and the tide could pass underneath, would also remove the tunnels and leave the beaches relatively untouched.

I also think this will also have to be done on the Exe estuary.

[TaplowGreen]

The myth that an alternative to Dawlish would result in the existing line being closed needs to be firmly quashed, as I see its reared its head again on social media. To my mind, its unthinkable that the towns and Bay resorts wouldn’t warrant a rail service, even if rationalised somewhat. And lets be honest, few High Speed service stop at Dawlish and Teignm outhitting or run through to Paignton anyway

I think the problem is; would they be so quick to repair any breach?

The plan I saw at Dawlish was to extend the sea wall further into the sea, but this only gives the sea something to smash at. I would put the track on stilts in the sea and the tide could pass underneath, would also remove the tunnels and leave the beaches relatively untouched.

I also think this will also have to be done on the Exe estuary.

How much would that cost, and how much would the "avoiding route" cost?

[1st fan]

Both Up and Down sleeper services cancelled.

What happens to the sleeper passengers in these circumstances? Do GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway) arrange road transport or do they put them in hotels overnight? (Or are they just abandoned and left to their own devices?)

The 21.03 to Plymouth finally left Paddington at 22.20 and was the last service out of Paddington to Taunton and beyond. It is however terminating at Exeter, so not much use to most Sleeper passengers.

So I guess a hotel in London or Reading? I know that GWR ask passengers with berths booked for their mobile numbers and I further believe they are all contacted. But who pays for the hotel?

Several passengers who arrived for the sleeper were booked into the Hilton at Paddington by GWR, and others were provided with road transport - only right and proper.


Earlier in the day customers were being assured that the sleeper would run, it was only much later that this changed and people were told not to travel, so offering them a bed for the night on a bench at Paddington or Reading wouldn't really have been an option...........if you see a taxi driver ordering an Aston Martin you will know where the money came from!

When the sleeper didn't run for me (years ago) due to the line being washed out between Exeter and Tiverton FGW^▸ (First Great Western) were very good. They put on an HST^▸ (High Speed Train) from Penzance to Plymouth for all passengers and then road transport to Tiverton and then a train to Paddington. If you were a berth customer there was also the option of a hotel in Plymouth and continuing the journey by road/rail in the morning. They also refunded berth customers the cost of their tickets.

[1st fan]

The myth that an alternative to Dawlish would result in the existing line being closed needs to be firmly quashed, as I see its reared its head again on social media. To my mind, its unthinkable that the towns and Bay resorts wouldn’t warrant a rail service, even if rationalised somewhat. And lets be honest, few High Speed service stop at Dawlish and Teignm outhitting or run through to Paignton anyway

I think the problem is; would they be so quick to repair any breach?

The plan I saw at Dawlish was to extend the sea wall further into the sea, but this only gives the sea something to smash at. I would put the track on stilts in the sea and the tide could pass underneath, would also remove the tunnels and leave the beaches relatively untouched.

I also think this will also have to be done on the Exe estuary.

A better option might be a breakwater along the affected stretch reducing the power of the waves before they got to land.

[Umberleigh]

The myth that an alternative to Dawlish would result in the existing line being closed needs to be firmly quashed, as I see its reared its head again on social media. To my mind, its unthinkable that the towns and Bay resorts wouldn’t warrant a rail service, even if rationalised somewhat. And lets be honest, few High Speed service stop at Dawlish and Teignm outhitting or run through to Paignton anyway

I think the problem is; would they be so quick to repair any breach?

The plan I saw at Dawlish was to extend the sea wall further into the sea, but this only gives the sea something to smash at. I would put the track on stilts in the sea and the tide could pass underneath, would also remove the tunnels and leave the beaches relatively untouched.

I also think this will also have to be done on the Exe estuary.

A better option might be a breakwater along the affected stretch reducing the power of the waves before they got to land.

Stilts sound dangerous given that the waves reduced a section of the existing wall to rubble.

Reopen Okehampton route and reduce Dawlish Warren to Newton Abbot to single track with a passing loop at Teignmouth. Put the single track on the existing Up Main and then remodel the sea wall using the space gained, with better drainage and if necessary a higher rampart

[martyjon]

DfT^» (Department for Transport - about) need to look at the GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway) 1935 plan for an inland route. As I see it from Google maps a line could be constructed from a location near Powderham Castle and Estate to rejoin the current line to the east of the Devon Expressway for the run into Newton Abbot. From the satellite image such a route would mainly be through agricultural land. The current route would be retained for local services and Summer Saturdays holiday traffic and if weather closes the line in future local services could still be run Exeter - Dawlish Warren and Newton Abbot - Teignmouth with RRB^▸ (Rail Replacement Bus) between Dawlish Warren and Teignmouth.

[PhilWakely]

A better option might be a breakwater along the affected stretch reducing the power of the waves before they got to land.

The problem isn't just the waves, but also the potential for the cliffs to collapse.

[ellendune]

DfT^» (Department for Transport - about) need to look at the GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway) 1935 plan for an inland route. As I see it from Google maps a line could be constructed from a location near Powderham Castle and Estate to rejoin the current line to the east of the Devon Expressway for the run into Newton Abbot. From the satellite image such a route would mainly be through agricultural land. The current route would be retained for local services and Summer Saturdays holiday traffic and if weather closes the line in future local services could still be run Exeter - Dawlish Warren and Newton Abbot - Teignmouth with RRB^▸ (Rail Replacement Bus) between Dawlish Warren and Teignmouth.

They don't need to do that they already spent money on a report looking at this and other routes.  Lets not waste money on more reports. Just read them and do something!

[SandTEngineer]

Here is part of the original plan:



..and extracts from a magazine article freely available on the www:



I believe it was planned to have new stations on the proposed route for Dawlish and Teignmouth (at the back of both towns), so only Dawlish Warren would have been lost (if you could call that a loss ).

[broadgage]

Moving the line offshore around Dawlish has been previously discussed, with the general view that so doing would be too costly and disruptive.
Placing the railway on a solid sea wall seems a non starter due to the land locked lagoon that would be formed to landward.
Placing the line on a pier, under which the sea would pass freely sounds possible but hugely expensive.

I recently heard of an alternative proposal to move the line offshore, on a pier or bridge as above, but to partially offset the costly civil engineering works by building several large wind turbines as part of the pier or bridge.
Off shore wind turbines need large and costly foundations, but if the cost was shared between the railway and the electricity generating industry, might be more affordable.
The pier or bridge would be carry a double track railway and a public footpath. It could become an attraction in its own right, for sightseeing and angling.
The footway would not be open to road vehicles normally, but could be used thus in case of emergency, and for access to maintain the  structure and the wind turbines.

This suggestion was from a senior figure in the wind power industry, so not exactly independent. Still perhaps worth considering.

Edit to add, I have their permission to publish this suggestion, but NOT to give their name or other details. I can confirm that I have no connection with them beyond casual friendship.

[SandTEngineer]

This interesting link turned up on the WNXX^▸ (Stored Unserviceable, Mainline Locos HQ All Classes) Forum: http://www.rail.co.uk/rail-news/2014/dawlish-rail-disruption/

When was it closed?
Winter 1846 – 3 days

Winter 1852/53 – 2 blockages of 7 and 3 days respectively)

Feb 1855 – blockage of 12 days continuously (longest in period 1846 – 1986)

Oct 1859 – blockage for 3 days

Jan – Feb 1869 – blockage for 5 days

Winter 1872/73 – 4 blockages of 1 day, 3 days, 3 days and 1 day respectively

Nov 1908 – damage to walkway only

March 1923 – blockage of 3 days

Jan 1930 – blockage of 5 days

Feb 1936 – blockage of 3 days

March 1962 – ballast wash outs, services suspended for several hours, then Single Line Working (SLW) was instituted over the Up line

February 1974 – major damage to down platform at Dawlish station, line completely closed for 2 hours, then up line reopened

Feb/March 1986 – blocked 26/02/86 to 03/3/86 – serious damage to wall at Smugglers Cove. The Up line (eastbound) was still useable for engineers trains (and a few freight services on 1 March only). SLW commenced on 03/3/86 with the Down Main Line (Westbound) remaining shut until reopened on 11/3/86

In the last 20 years, January 1996 saw a major incident when the wall was damaged between Dawlish and Dawlish Warren at Rockstone with further severe damage at Sprey Point. Here, the down line (nearest the sea) was suspended over a washed out void, which reached to sleeper ends of Up line. Both lines closed several days were closed for about a week.

The Winter of 2000/2001 following prolonged heavy rain, saw many cliff falls and again Sprey Point featured with a big fall with the line closed for a few days and some more damage to the sea wall. Railtrack then Network Rail then carried out some major cliff stabilisation work in the mid-2000s at a cost of around £15 million.

[IndustryInsider]

The governments of 1846, 1852/3, 1855, 1859, 1869, 1872/3, 1923, 1931, 1936, 1986, 1996, and 2000/1 should be ashamed.

[stuving]

Presumably that list is only of closures for repair. "Ordinary" interruptions of train services due to too much sea (in the wrong place) must have frequent throughout, though perhaps without today's formal announcement in advance, and more of a try it and see if the fire gets put out attitude.