Trains reversing beyond the station

[whole diary]

[The Tall Controller]

Off-route for us westerners but one of the longest has to be the Chathill twice-daily train which has to run empty for 6 miles to Belford before being able to reverse.

[IndustryInsider]

Off-route for us westerners but one of the longest has to be the Chathill twice-daily train which has to run empty for 6 miles to Belford before being able to reverse.

Which serves Chathill and also several other small stations on the ECML^▸ (East Coast Main Line) north of Morpeth that only get two trains a day each way at the most.  Logic would dictate you'd shut Chathill, Adlington, Widrington and Pegswood, given the distances between them, the number of passengers, and the cumbersome shunt described above, but it's quite nice that logic doesn't always prevail.

[Lee]

I would imagine that has a lot to do with the fact that Pegswood, Widdrington, Acklington and Chathill all come under the formidable auspices of the South East Northumberland Rail User Group, who are campaigning for significantly improved services.

Post-Beeching, loco-hauled trains between Newcastle, Berwick and Edinburgh served these stations - In 1982 for example, there were 4 trains each way calling at Chathill. Services were run down during the 1980's though, with the Chathill terminators coming in fully in 1991 after ECML^▸ (East Coast Main Line) electrification.

Try this for a further insight.

[IndustryInsider]

I wish them luck.  Certainly there are currently some large layovers at Morpeth on the services to/from Metro Centre, so providing a more frequent service as far as Berwick won't take up as many extra trains as you might imagine - though it would utilise a unit for getting on for two hours if you extended it from Morpeth to Berwick and back.

Pathing an all stations Newcastle to Edinburgh service with four reopened stations would certainly test the timetable planners!

[grahame]

Which serves Chathill and also several other small stations on the ECML^▸ (East Coast Main Line) north of Morpeth that only get two trains a day each way at the most.  Logic would dictate you'd shut Chathill, Adlington, Widrington and Pegswood, given the distances between them, the number of passengers, and the cumbersome shunt described above, but it's quite nice that logic doesn't always prevail.

I recall my early involvement in TransWilts .. asking the ORR^» (Office of Rail and Road formerly Office of Rail Regulation - about) about passenger numbers using the service, and they came back with a very nice letter saying they didn't have train rider numbers - the best they could do was quote passenger numbers from their stats for Melksham, which were around 3,000 per annum at the two trains each way per day level.   In the last year for which stats have been published, Chathill has 2 trains each way per day and 2,768 passenger journeys.  A further 5,000 journeys are made if you include Adlington, Widrington and Pegswood, and note that north of Morpeth the train also serves Alnmouth - big numbers, also served by long distance trains - at which traffic might well grow if service frequency to Newcastle (with extra local trains) increased.

I don't know Northumberland ... but I do know that its figures at Chathill look remarkably similar to those we had at Melksham - and thank goodness the solution we found was to grow.  Different place, perhaps a different solution - logic is to look at all options, including "it ain't bust - just small" through "Chathill for Lindisfarne" leisure traffic ... and "Chathill Garden City"

[JayMac]

GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway) 16x's at Gatwick reverse or stable between runs beyond the Station, don't they?

I can't see any regular moves beyond the station on RTT^» (Real Time Trains - website). Most arrivals at Gatwick have just 7 minutes at platform before returning to Reading. Beginning and end of day services come from/head to Redhill.

There is an arrival from Guildford on Sundays that shunts out of the station for around half an hour before coming back in to form a service to Reading.

[Thatcham Crossing]

There is an arrival from Guildford on Sundays that shunts out of the station for around half an hour before coming back in to form a service to Reading.

Could be the one I saw, as last time I was there was on a Sunday at the end of June. It was definitely parked a bit south of the Airport Station.

[didcotdean]

I think reversal outside of the station at Gatwick used to be quite common but not sure when that ceased to be the case.

[paul7575]

I would imagine that has a lot to do with the fact that Pegswood, Widdrington, Acklington and Chathill all come under the formidable auspices of the South East Northumberland Rail User Group, who are campaigning for significantly improved services.

Post-Beeching, loco-hauled trains between Newcastle, Berwick and Edinburgh served these stations - In 1982 for example, there were 4 trains each way calling at Chathill. Services were run down during the 1980's though, with the Chathill terminators coming in fully in 1991 after ECML^▸ (East Coast Main Line) electrification.

Try this for a further insight.

Interesting that the morning train TO Chathill is a relatively express service, it still skips Pegswood, Widdrington and Acklington.  Those 3 stations are odd in only having a morning train towards Newcastle, only the evening Chathill train calls at them in both directions. 

As a child in the early sixties I regularly used the stoppers as far as Alnwick, then that closed and I went only as far as Alnmouth for a few years.  Never got out at Chathill although I stopped there a few times on the way to or from Berwick...

Paul

[stuving]

I think reversal outside of the station at Gatwick used to be quite common but not sure when that ceased to be the case.

It was mainly needed bacause the nominally "slow" platforms 1,2&3 also had the Gatwick Expresses stopping and waiting at them. Once P7 was built and GX went off to the other side there was less pressure for through paths on the slow side.

[IndustryInsider]

Which serves Chathill and also several other small stations on the ECML^▸ (East Coast Main Line) north of Morpeth that only get two trains a day each way at the most.  Logic would dictate you'd shut Chathill, Adlington, Widrington and Pegswood, given the distances between them, the number of passengers, and the cumbersome shunt described above, but it's quite nice that logic doesn't always prevail.

I recall my early involvement in TransWilts .. asking the ORR^» (Office of Rail and Road formerly Office of Rail Regulation - about) about passenger numbers using the service, and they came back with a very nice letter saying they didn't have train rider numbers - the best they could do was quote passenger numbers from their stats for Melksham, which were around 3,000 per annum at the two trains each way per day level.   In the last year for which stats have been published, Chathill has 2 trains each way per day and 2,768 passenger journeys.  A further 5,000 journeys are made if you include Adlington, Widrington and Pegswood, and note that north of Morpeth the train also serves Alnmouth - big numbers, also served by long distance trains - at which traffic might well grow if service frequency to Newcastle (with extra local trains) increased.

I don't know Northumberland ... but I do know that its figures at Chathill look remarkably similar to those we had at Melksham - and thank goodness the solution we found was to grow.  Different place, perhaps a different solution - logic is to look at all options, including "it ain't bust - just small" through "Chathill for Lindisfarne" leisure traffic ... and "Chathill Garden City"

No doubt usage would improve with a more regular service - you just have to look at the other end of the line at Dunston where there are nearly five times the number of passengers since the service was improved five years ago. However there are plenty of calls on paths between Newcastle and Edinburgh including the open access services from 2021 opeated by FirstGroup.  Chathill itself is tiny, but obviously draws in a reasonable number of commuters from somewhere.

[rower40]

Properly off-area...
Glenrothes with Thornton station.  A terminating train arriving from the Cowdenbeath direction has to disgorge its passengers in the platform, then continue eastwards to get behind a suitable signal (either on north or south curve at Thornton Junction), then come back again to load up for its return journey.  There are no platform starting signals, because the station was built only after the last time the line was resignalled.

[Dispatch Box]

Some years ago trains also used to reverse at Chepstow, they ran out towards the wye bridge and over a crossover then back into the opposite Platform. The crossover is still in place but now very rusty.

Lastly, trains do reverse in Cardiff Central, some if they have time will often go into the brickyard siding then come out to plats 0 1 2., but if very late will run from the platform they terminated in, now cardiffs got better signalling, it is second to none.

[grahame]

Off-route for us westerners but one of the longest has to be the Chathill twice-daily train which has to run empty for 6 miles to Belford before being able to reverse.

In the news (up there) again today ... from the Northumberland Gazette

Northumberland County Council has said there is no evidence to suggest there is a robust business case to support the reopening of Belford or Scremerston.

Stuart McNaughton, the council’s strategic transport policy officer, said: “The county-council bid for monies from Network Rail’s New Stations Fund in 2013 to deliver a station at Belford was unsuccessful.

“Network Rail’s review of the business case submission concluded that there were issues that needed to be addressed with the demand forecasts. However, even if these were addressed, the low frequency of train service as well as dispersed population means patronage is likely to be low. There was no strong evidence to support the proposed demand at Belford where much of the passenger catchment area overlaps with that of Chathill Station.

“As a result, the application did not meet the criteria of the New Stations Fund of having a business case of medium value for money or greater.

“The council has no current plans to invest further in the Belford Station project or to commence work on Scremerston Station.

It would seem from reading the rest of the article that the previous business case was based on extending the Chathill terminators to Belford.   That is a very limited case and I can appreciate it would not stack up; having been on one of the stoppers out to Chathill (yes, a sample size too small for any statistical significance) and assuming that Belford's station area would be similar (yes, assumptions are dangerous), merely adding a station without any change in service, and without any thought of if and how people are going to make use of the station would not be the best spend even though I suspect its passenger numbers would rapidly climb beyond those of Chathill.    Given free or cheap parking and a frequent service ... who knows?  Perhaps no-one knows, because no-one has looked at the idea?

[Gordon the Blue Engine]

Since the 387’s arrived Didcot Parkway now sees reversals on a regular basis beyond the platform at West End for some terminating stoppers from Paddington.  Usually they turn back from P5, P4 or P3 but if the platforms are needed they go forward to West End to wait before reversing back into the station for their next working.  P3 (DR) has no direct route to UR: trains have to be routed out to the UM at Didcot East before crossing over to UR at Moreton Cutting.  So P4 or P5 are preferred to reduce conflicting moves.

There are also one or two terminators from Oxford direction that having arrived in P4 (the only platform they can do a West End move from) then reverse to West End, wait, then reverse back into P3 or P4 before reversing again for their next journey towards Oxford.