Potential new services GWR could start?

[whole diary]

[devonexpress]

If you could or would like to see new services by GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway) what would they be?

Mine are the following

*New services from Paddington to Birmingham Snow Hill (fast) and Stratford Upon Avon giving better links from the Midlands to London,South West and Heathrow.

*10:30 Paddington to Paignton extended to Kingswear during the summer to provide connections to the South Hams, possibly calling at Churston if the PDSR would permit it. Rerouted back via the original route of Bristol Temple Meads.

*Summer service to Minehead to cater for Butlins, replacing the current coach service from Taunton by Buses of Somerset.

*Services from Cardiff extended to Shrewsbury or looking at setting up a new direct service from Paddington to Shrewsbury with regular timings, possibly by merging some ATW^▸ (Arriva Trains Wales (former TOC^▸ (Train Operating Company))) services into the new service.

[JayMac]

GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway) should concentrate on performing their existing franchise commitments before looking at any extra-curricular activities.

Were any of your suggestions put in a response to the recent consultation? Do any have the backing of GWR themselves or stakeholders?

One I would vehemently oppose is the suggestion that one of Buses of Somerset's most profitable routes is taken away from them to provide a slower and less frequent rail service to Minehead. A train service can't really cater for Butlins unless a halt is provided. The bus deposits holidaymakers at the camp gates. A train leaves them with a near mile long walk, luggage and kids in tow. A Summer weekend special to the West Somerset Railway, in the same vein as that to the Swanage Railway with SWR^» (South Western Railway - about), by all means. Not scheduled daily services at the expense of the buses that serve communities between Taunton and Minehead. Removing the buses in favour of trains cuts off access to public transport for parts of Taunton and Minehead, and communities along the A358/A39 not served by WSR stations without a bus service.

Is there a need for London - Birmingham to have a fifth operator/route? There's already Virgin, Chiltern, West Midland Trains, with HS2^▸ (The next High Speed line(s)) on the way. Where's the capacity at Paddington for trains to Birmingham. Where's the revenue abstraction justification?

Same arguments for a Paddington - Shrewsbury service. Capacity and abstraction.

For Kingswear, an additional train would have to be diagrammed or the timetable changed. Run the 1030 from Paddington through to Kingswear and you can't then use that set for the return working from Paignton at 1454. Is a 1445ish arrival in Kingswear going to be attractive to summer day trippers? Then there's getting the clearance for Class 80x to travel through to Kingswear. Far better to again consider the Swanage Railway/SWR option. A weekend special DMU^▸ (Diesel Multiple Unit) service from a regional centre. Bristol to Kingswear perhaps. But then that already has a very good Summer heritage service.

Sorry to be so negative, but to my mind your ideas smack of wanting modern GWR to do what GWR of old did. Our franchised railways aren't really set up to do such things, beyond the odd special. What people want and where they want to go are very different today compared to the days of God's Wonderful Railway. Your sughestions appear to be fanciful ideas dreamed up whilst wearing rose tinted spectacles.

[grahame]

Sorry to be so negative, but ...

I'm afraid I agree with the questions that Bignosemac asks and issues he raises on the three proposals, and caution against GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway) or any other TOC^▸ (Train Operating Company) biting off more than they can chew. However, I stress absolutely the right of members here to fly kites here - to asks and learn, to stress test, and to encourage others to pick up ideas of the useful bits of other ideas.

[Electric train]

Sorry to be so negative, but ...

I'm afraid I agree with the questions that Bignosemac asks and issues he raises on the three proposals, and caution against GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway) or any other TOC^▸ (Train Operating Company) biting off more than they can chew. However, I stress absolutely the right of members here to fly kites here - to asks and learn, to stress test, and to encourage others to pick up ideas of the useful bits of other ideas.

Not only has the modern franchising made the most recent changes in how the railway operates, there is a question about capacity at some stations to handle these extra services; also is there the demand ie enough regular day on day bums on seats that make a through service viable

[ChrisB]

The only one I would support wholeheartedly would be a transfer back of the Stratford-upon-Avon service to GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway). Along with the reinstated link from Honeybourne - Stratford. FGW^▸ (First Great Western)/Thames Trains made a better effort than Chiltern ever has of serving Stratford - indeed, Chiltern has a lack of rolling stock preventing them from any service improvement over the current offering, most of which now involves a very inconvenient change of train.

[grahame]

I have taken a look at my own "list" of things I would see on the horizon.  In all cases, operational case, business case, local sentiment seem achievable - to bring not only new business that it can cope with to the railway, but also a wider economic benefit to the areas served and very little abstraction from other services - rather complementing other services (rail and road) into a network.

(Oxford and) Swindon to Solent (and Fawley).  http://atrebatia.info/swi_sol_201712_v11.pdf

Sewweb - Fast and regular train services connecting South Wales, North Somerset and the inner residential areas of Bristol with the Patchway, Aztec West and Westgate business areas of North Bristol.  http://www.sewweb.info/leaflet.pdf

Portishead (from Bristol)  http://www.passenger.chat/231

Okehampton (from Exeter) http://www.passenger.chat/2338

Tavistock (from Plymouth) http://www.passenger.chat/804

East - West Rail (Oxford, Bletchley, Bedford, etc) http://www.passenger.chat/1219

[Richard Fairhurst]

Worcestershire County Council is keen on extending London-Worcester services to Droitwich and Kidderminster, and I believe GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway) has been looking into it.

I've long thought that there could be a market to extend one or two London-Herefords to Ludlow, but the fact there's no turnback until you get to Craven Arms is a bit of a downer.

[devonexpress]

Sorry to be so negative, but to my mind your ideas smack of wanting modern GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway) to do what GWR of old did. Our franchised railways aren't really set up to do such things, beyond the odd special. What people want and where they want to go are very different today compared to the days of God's Wonderful Railway. Your sughestions appear to be fanciful ideas dreamed up whilst wearing rose tinted spectacles.

I just hope your not being so negative because of my comments on other places in this forum.

[JayMac]

I try to respond to the content of the posts. Playing the ball not the person.

[grahame]

Snip

I just hope your not being so negative because of my comments on other places in this forum.

Sadly, each of the three does have significant issues (elephants in the room).  Having said which ... Old Oak Common to Curzon Street Birmingham, fast (very fast!) with HS2^▸ (The next High Speed line(s)) is on the cards, and people have been wrestling with / looking at Minehead and Kingswear for years - both are a lot more researched than blue sky ideas.

When I first got involved in rail campaigning - over a decade ago - some chap came round and asked me if I knew what I was getting into ... altered me to the depth of issues to be looked at, the time, the cost, and the danger of getting sucked in such that I would get stuck / couldn't get out.  At the time, my wife and I felt he was being a bit negative but it was a brave and correct flag for him to raise, and I have thanked him since - he did us a real service by helping define aspirations and o qualify the issues.  I see a similar approach in Bignosemac's answer to you.

[WelshBluebird]

I have to agree with bignosemac's comments. GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway) can't even deal with their current services at the moment. Surely they should sort that out first?
Then maybe start looking at improvements to current services (higher frequencies, new stations on existing services) etc.

[grahame]

I have to agree with bignosemac's comments. GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway) can't even deal with their current services at the moment. Surely they should sort that out first?
Then maybe start looking at improvements to current services (higher frequencies, new stations on existing services) etc.

Agreed - though there are elements that can be in parallel - they don't have to be serial.

We were offered an element of choice on the TransWilts train - do you want it to start for 2014, or wait another year (!) until electrification's come through and you'll have a more stable base with far less engineering during the trial.    Being impatient (and having a limited time in which to claim LSTF^▸ (Local Sustainable Transport Fund)  grants) we went for 2014 ... so glad we did as the major engineering works turned out to be March to August 2018, by which time we had had - and overcome some - other problems (too short train, too short platform, too few trains).

[ChrisB]

(Oxford and) Swindon to Solent (and Fawley).  http://atrebatia.info/swi_sol_201712_v11.pdf

East - West Rail (Oxford, Bletchley, Bedford, etc) http://www.passenger.chat/1219

The latter could cover (some of) the former of course.

[CMRail]

I think GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway) should make minor improvements to there services rather than extend some. More services into Wales, later services, improving how direct services are (missing off stops for a separate service) and improving timetables so they match with connecting services. Increase local patterns that aren’t yet 1tph (Worcester, TransWilts etc.) and improve reliability.

[simonw]

What is sad about GWRs^▸ (Great Western Railway) decline, and potential future is that very little of it is in their control.

Whilst NR^» (Network Rail - home page) and DfT^» (Department for Transport - about) are not wholly responsible, the failure to deliver upgrades, new rolling stock (new and cascaded) on a schedule that could allow for training has made their job, and their customers experience, difficult.