Going to the (horse) races by train

[whole diary]

[broadgage]

Some years ago, whilst dining in the Pullman the train passed Newbury racecourse. A fellow customer looked out of the window, stating "my doctor has told me to keep a close eye on what I eat" this being during a scandal of horsemeat being found in products claimed to be beef.

" I like IKEA meatballs, but having to assemble the horse first is tedious"

"Shock and horror, horse meat found in IKEA meat balls" "not as shocking as finding wood in the furniture"

[Western Pathfinder]

Ikea meatballs surprisingly low in fat but very high in Sheagar !

[devonexpress]

I don't have much time for a 'sport' which results in the deaths of 160 competitors a year.

Sorry to be argumentative, but if you saw some of the care and devotion that goes into those horses you'd be amazed, stable girls/lads are people on barely minimum wage who look after them 24/7, 365 days of the year, often working 12 or more hour shifts ensuring they are groomed, fed, mucked, watered, rode and given any injections, treatment they need to be healthy, no horse is put down unless its really necessary.  A lot of these horses are worth more than a brand new Jag!

[JayMac]

I don't doubt the care and devotion of stable lads and lasses toward the horses in their care. They too though, like the horses, are exploited. Tales abound of being paid below minimum wage and of living in poor accommodation.

The horses are worth what they are because of the money awash in the industry. Money that rarely makes it down the chain to the lads and lasses. And the 'best' horses are insured. Run of the mill nags running on a wet Wednesday at Wincanton may not be insured. Either way, a survivable injury is often turned into a bullet to the head because treatment and care would be too expensive and the horse would not return to racing to earn for its connections.

So, sorry. Whilst I can empathise with the lads and lasses I can't use their lot as justification for accepting the 160 deaths a year of racehorses while competing.

[broadgage]

Race horses are indeed very valuable and well looked after, that however does not alter the fact that large numbers die every year as a direct result of racing related injuries.

[devonexpress]

Race horses are indeed very valuable and well looked after, that however does not alter the fact that large numbers die every year as a direct result of racing related injuries.

The same could have been argued for formula 1 any many other sports several years ago,  improvements to safety is a better move forward, trying to stop the sport all together won't get much support because its so popular.

[grahame]

Race horses are indeed very valuable and well looked after, that however does not alter the fact that large numbers die every year as a direct result of racing related injuries.

The same could have been argued for formula 1 any many other sports several years ago,  improvements to safety is a better move forward, trying to stop the sport all together won't get much support because its so popular.

I see a big difference between "sports" where animals are injured and sports where human beings allow themselves to be put in a position where they are injured.

[broadgage]

I for one am not actively trying to stop horse racing.
But neither do I wish to attend race meetings, not to offer any other form of encouragement.
If enough people simply don't patronise meetings, then the sport will slowly whither away.

Motor racing is different since the victims are usually human volunteers who chose to partake in an obviously dangerous sport.

[JayMac]

The same could have been argued for formula 1 any many other sports several years ago

False equivalence.

[devonexpress]

Race horses are indeed very valuable and well looked after, that however does not alter the fact that large numbers die every year as a direct result of racing related injuries.

The same could have been argued for formula 1 any many other sports several years ago,  improvements to safety is a better move forward, trying to stop the sport all together won't get much support because its so popular.

I see a big difference between "sports" where animals are injured and sports where human beings allow themselves to be put in a position where they are injured.

Except these horses you refer to have been bred over 100 years with racing genes, why do you think most racing horses struggle after leaving the racing industry because they are very difficult to handle.   Its like buying a high performance sports car and using it for slow town driving.   Most race horses actually enjoy racing and its fairly easy to tell because they get so excited.  I'm sorry to if this seems rude but the problem isn't all about the racing industry itself but uneducated people thinking they know best.

As I said before, safety improves are a better solution, 20 years ago F1 drivers where being burnt alive how often does that happen now?

[JayMac]

Accusing those in disagreement with you of being uneducated is poor form.

Particularly when you refer to horses having 'racing jeans' (how do they put them on?!), mention 'safety improves' rather than 'safety improvements', and continue with the false equivalence of Formula One and horse racing. Then there's the excellent skewering of your own position that horse racing is okay for the horses with the grammatically strange question and answer in one sentence; "why do you think most racing horses struggle after leaving the racing industry because they are very difficult to handle".

For accuracy, despite the continued false equivalence, the last person to burn to death in F1 was Roger Williamson in 1973. 45 years ago. Not 20. Fire safety improved dramatically after that incident meaning that whilst there were still serious fires after accidents, the drivers survived. Nikki Lauda and Gerhard Berger being two examples. The last major fire involving an F1 car was Jos Verstappen's pit stop refuelling fire in 1994. Well over 20 years ago and resulting in only very minor injuries to driver and mechanics. Safety in Formula One has improved immeasurably since the early 1970s. Yes, it's still dangerous. Yes there are still deaths. But only three F1 drivers have been killed while competing since 1983. And once again it needs pointing out that drivers in Formula One are there by choice.

As to your claims that 'safety improves are a better solution' (sic), where are these in the horse racing industry?

Animal Aid started collating data on horse deaths while racing in 2007. That year there were 161 deaths at UK^▸ (United Kingdom) racecourses. In 2017 there were 160. Over those 10 years the number of race meetings fell by 3%. Ten years of safety 'improvements' resulted in a statistically meaningless one fewer death. At that rate it'll take 1600 years to improve safety to the extent that no horse dies while racing.

What about retired horse welfare? If not out to stud or breeding, or becoming a celebrity (Red Rum, Desert Orchid etc), then it's rarely a happy retirement gambolling about the countryside. That's too expensive. A lucky few might find a home for retired racehorses run by a charity. Such charities receive little financial support from the industry itself though. Otherwise it's a one way trip to the abattoir. That's the fate for around 1000 healthy, but no longer competitive or useful for breeding, UK racehorses a year. Because these horses have been trained to race and are highly strung (those are not good things by the way) they are unsuited to private ownership for leisurely weekend hacks.

Finally, racehorses 'enjoying' racing. No scientific proof for that beyond natural instincts to run with the pack. Seeing that as enjoyment is just anthropomorphism.

My stats are from Animal Aid's Racehorse Deathwatch.
http://www.horsedeathwatch.com/
They posit that their death statistics are very conservative and 30% short of the true total. The number of annual deaths could be over 200.

Formula One stats largely from my own knowledge and enthusiasm for the sport. Fact checked with Wikipedia.

[TaplowGreen]

BNM are you a vegetarian?

[JayMac]

BNM are you a vegetarian?

No.

Relevance?

[broadgage]

I enjoy meat, but I do favour free range meat and as far as possible avoid meat that is reared in intensive, unnatural or otherwise cruel conditions.

I see nothing wrong in the rearing of animals in natural free range conditions, and then in killing them for eating. Providing that they properly treated whilst alive, and transported with minimal stress before humane slaughter.

I largely avoid processed or ground up meat such as pies, sausages, burgers and the like, but more for fear of what has probably gone into it.
Beefburger= all parts of a cow excepting the beef steak and the leather.
Haggis=all parts of a sheep excepting the wool and the mutton.
Sausage= all the bits we cant sell as anything else.

I also see nothing wrong in the hunting of wild animals such as game birds, rabbits, and deer for food providing that this be done humanely (usually by a good shot from a suitable firearm) and presuming that the animals are relatively plentiful and not endangered.

[TaplowGreen]

BNM are you a vegetarian?

No.

Relevance?

I find it ironic that someone who, on animal welfare grounds, is clearly so against a sport where a tiny proportion of animals who are bred for racing die in the process, but is happy to feed himself on animals that are never bred for anything other than the slaughterhouse?

I also note your fondness for F1 - back in the not so distant days when it was hugely sponsored by big tobacco, how did you reconcile your support with the millions of people who die as a result of that industry?


One other thing - you are clearly an intelligent person who thinks deeply about subjects - I have to say that sarcastic "Grammar Nazi" style comments on other people's spelling is a cheap shot and unworthy of you. I'm not saying that it's the case with the other contributor, but a lot of people have conditions which prevent them being as perfect as you when it comes to these matters - I don't think it's appropriate to emphasise, weaponise or poke fun at such things.