London to Reading, London to Heathrow, service patterns under Crossrail

[whole diary]

[TaplowGreen]

I get the self interest issue but aren't you being a little over the top? I'm sorry if Crossrail results in you having to change trains at Reading but for the overwhelming majority of those who work in London & commute via train/Tube, Crossrail represents a huge and much overdue step forward. The time saved will transform people's work/life balance. I guess there are always losers in any huge undertaking which is bound to skew your sense of perspective, but I do think you need to see the bigger picture on this one.
 

[lordgoata]

I don't have an issue with Crossrail, I have an issue with losing the GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway) through trains as a result. Like I said, I am just venting, just like others do be it cancellations, loss of buffet cars or getting harder seats. I can't remember who to attribute it to, but as some one once said, progress sucks.

[Thatcham Crossing]

I'm kinda with lordgoata on this one - I don't know his circumstances or all the detail of where he commutes to and from, but I guess he isn't on his own entirely, and it's not progress if he (and others?) will have to change where they don't today.

In my neck of the woods (or slightly west) there was a pretty big stink kicked-up around the suggestion of connections (to diesel shuttles) at Newbury being necessary for the commuters of Kintbury, Hungerford and Bedwyn during the morning and evening peaks, once the wires went up.

That, combined with the expected use of IET^▸ (Intercity Express Train)'s on the "Bedwyn's" would appear to have resolved that issue...and should also result in a better service.

As for Goring, presumably there will be 800's (or still Turbo's?) running the faster services between Paddington and Oxford, and 387's running from Paddington to Didcot? All that is needed is for some changes to stopping patterns? (I say "all that is needed" whilst at the same time realising that these things are not easy!)

[Sixty3Closure]

I'm also kinda, sorta with lordgoata as well. I'm not getting too worked up at the moment as I know there's a lot of work still to be done but if we lose the fast GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway) trains for Twyford and Maidenhead I think that's going to be a big step backward especially as not really seeing much benefit from the new trains (yet). In a worse case scenario I could see electrification, new trains, new and trained drivers, infrastructure all coming together for a few months in 2019 before a backwards step.

I remain hopeful though that we will keep some of the fast trains from and to  Didcot/Oxford which might help Lordgoata with some of his commutes.

[TaplowGreen]

I'm also kinda, sorta with lordgoata as well. I'm not getting too worked up at the moment as I know there's a lot of work still to be done but if we lose the fast GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway) trains for Twyford and Maidenhead I think that's going to be a big step backward especially as not really seeing much benefit from the new trains (yet). In a worse case scenario I could see electrification, new trains, new and trained drivers, infrastructure all coming together for a few months in 2019 before a backwards step.

I remain hopeful though that we will keep some of the fast trains from and to  Didcot/Oxford which might help Lordgoata with some of his commutes.

I agree re: Maidenhead but as a significant station with 10x the number of passengers as Goring it's not really the best comparison?

I get that this thread is featuring people going into bat for their "own" stations in isolation however to suggest that Crossrail doesn't represent positive progress per se is verging on Luddite.

It isn't necessary, and it's unrealistic to expect 100% of people's situation to improve in their own judgement for a project to be judged a success. I'd suggest that the overall winners will exceed those who feel that they are losing out by a huge factor

[Thatcham Crossing]

You are of course correct around success factors TG (how often have I heard "80% is good enough" in my place of work!), but human nature is to not be happy (or even protest) if you feel that your lot is going to be negatively impacted.

I certainly don't disagree that Crossrail will be a game-changer. For me, once all the "new stuff" is in place, I'll have the choice, when travelling into London, of:
- take an IET^▸ (Intercity Express Train) from Thatcham to Paddington, change and cross London to the City in around 15 mins
- take an IET or 387 to Reading, change to Crossrail and ride direct to the City or Canary Wharf in 15-20 mins.
That seems pretty good (if I've understood the options/timings correctly)

[didcotdean]

It will potentially be those who do medium length trips between more minor stations that are likely to be the most inconvenienced in the medium term, particularly if one of these is beyond Didcot, meaning at least 1, often 2 changes whereas on the old pattern it would be direct. By definition these are small flows and percentages but the people concerned will be 100% affected.

As for a faster service in the peaks for some to London beyond Reading maybe something along the lines of the old Thames Valley Limited could run, starting from Oxford ideally or less ideally Didcot but missing out Reading.

[grahame]

Does the train come because of the traffic, or the traffic because of the train?

Most trains come because of the pasenger flows - but then other flows will grow because a good (perhaps through) service is provided for operational reasons. Good examples of flows that have grown over recent years might ne Tilehurst to Twyford and Oxford to Basingstoke.  Flows that - though parhaps unplanned - might grow could include Goring to North Camp on a through Oxford to Gatwick Airport services.

Trains cannot go through everywhere - long gone are the days of the ACE (Atlantic Coast Express) with portions for Padstow, Ilfracome, Bude and (perhaps) Bodmin North. So there are going to be winning and loosing flows. But the train planners meddle at their peril with what have become established if slightly surprising volume through journeys that they themselves have unintentionally prompoted.  Their customers are the people who use these services already, and a bird in hand is worth two in the bush.   They do need to look to the future though, ad consider whether a bird in hand is worth ten in the bush.

[eightf48544]

I think you've hit the nail on the head Grahame.

The answer to your first question is that for established frequent services like South London Third Rial services is that the train comes because the traffic is there (built up over 100 years), however, for improved services and a classic is the North London the traffic has grown because of the increased services to different destinations.

You are right when you say timetable planners should be wary of building up traffic flows with new  through journey possibilities only to degrade them later. A classic not in our area being Willington where  regular services to Nottingham Derby and Birmingham built up traffic only for these services to be cut at the next franchise change. 

Plus of course the ups and downs of Melksham.

Part of the problem is shortage of units, whereby to achieve maximum utilisation of the limited amount of stock what were separate services served by 2 units are combined into one thus unintentionally giving greater through journey oportunities and creating different traffic flows.

There are big discussions on splitting the Manchester/Liverpool Norwich services   

[janes]

I'm with Lord Goata too. The worst thing is the uncertainty - we from stations between Reading and Didcot are not being given any information about what our future service pattern will be.

As things stand now, my current morning service is a massive improvement on what was there before, but I have lost all three choices of direct services home in the evening. If this is how it will remain once Crossrail comes in, my only realistic option for going home will be to get a Crossrail train into Paddington and then a GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway) fast or semi-fast back out (assuming the Mai-Twy-Rdg-stations to Didcot trains will continue.)

This is because the chances of getting a seat on a Crossrail cattletruck at Ealing Broadway in the evening peak will be absolute zero (I don't always get one until Hayes or West Drayton now.)

Others (from intermediate stations into London) will have the same issue in the morning peak. I don't see how introducing tube-style seating can possibly be described as any kind of "improvement" for anyone going more than a few stops.

Sorry but for the extortionate amount I pay for a Season Ticket I absolutely expect to be able to sit down most of the time so I can use the journey productively rather than be crammed in like a sardine.

It may be a "selfish" point of view but it is NOT a "minority" one at all as hundreds of other people will be adversely affected as well as me in various ways.

[TaplowGreen]

Sorry but for the extortionate amount I pay for a Season Ticket I absolutely expect to be able to sit down most of the time so I can use the journey productively rather than be crammed in like a sardine.

The only way to achieve that level of certainty of a seat  is a reservation.Merely buying a season ticket has not, does not, and (probably) never will. Crossrail is designed around a speed & convenience metro style service, not comfort or working productively.

I'm not sure " hundreds" of people being somewhat inconvenienced constitutes a majority in the context of the number of people travelling in the morning/evening peak so I'm sorry but yes,you are in a minority, which is not to say I don't sympathise.

[Sixty3Closure]

Purely based on chatting to friends and colleagues with similar commutes to me I think there is some doubt as to whether Crossrail is the best solution beyond Slough. As TG says its based on a metro style solution which doesn't seem the best fit for 40-50 minute journeys and seems of limited benefit to Reading/Twyford/Maidenhead passengers especially if other services are cut. And no Toilets!

We will be very much be in the minority but doesn't mean it was necessarily the right decision to extend it that far.

As Janes say the moment its all speculation and uncertainty which doesn't help.

I just find it all the more frustrating coupled with a service from GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway) that has got worse after all of the alleged improvements

[CJB666]

And no Toilets!

And no wifi!

[CJB666]

This is because the chances of getting a seat on a Crossrail cattletruck at Ealing Broadway in the evening peak will be absolute zero (I don't always get one until Hayes or West Drayton now.)

The TfL^» (Transport for London - about) staff at the building site at Hayes are always trying to persuade Pad. bound pax to use their shiny new trains. I always opine that I'd rather wait for a GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway) electric and sit down in a proper seat, with wifi, and toilets, than endure one of their appalling 'cattle trucks.' They never seem to get the point.

BTW^▸ (by the way) I'm sure that you have seen those obtrusive adds for plastic devices that allow women caught short at say festivals to pee standing up into a urinal or bottle. Being an older than average male I might have to get one of these too. Maybe there's a marketing opportunity there - a plastic TfL pee device and bottle for use on toilet-less Crassrail trains!! I'll suggest to Private Eye that they could do a pi$$-take feature about this.

[TaplowGreen]

This is because the chances of getting a seat on a Crossrail cattletruck at Ealing Broadway in the evening peak will be absolute zero (I don't always get one until Hayes or West Drayton now.)

The TfL^» (Transport for London - about) staff at the building site at Hayes are always trying to persuade Pad. bound pax to use their shiny new trains. I always opine that I'd rather wait for a GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway) electric and sit down in a proper seat, with wifi, and toilets, than endure one of their appalling 'cattle trucks.' They never seem to get the point.

BTW^▸ (by the way) I'm sure that you have seen those obtrusive adds for plastic devices that allow women caught short at say festivals to pee standing up into a urinal or bottle. Being an older than average male I might have to get one of these too. Maybe there's a marketing opportunity there - a plastic TfL pee device and bottle for use on toilet-less Crassrail trains!! I'll suggest to Private Eye that they could do a pi$$-take feature about this.

I'm sure Ian Hislop is on the edge of his seat in anticipation and is holding the front page