165/166s on this route

[whole diary]

[tramway]

Many thanks for the correction Paul. Memory fade since I last had a serious interest in the subject.

[Noggin]

Bear in mind that the 80x's are 26m long vs 23m for a MK3. There was route clearance along the various routes used by HST^▸ (High Speed Train) stock (plus a few diversionary routes) as part of the IET^▸ (Intercity Express Train) project, but anything else will require that work to be done (assuming that a preliminary analysis doesn't find any big problems), plus potential beefing up of power supplies if you want to run them on third-rail. Then you'd need IET's to be ordered (and Hitachi have a fairly full order book), so it seems a little far-fetched.

There was a suggestion elsewhere that a passenger TOC^▸ (Train Operating Company) was in the market for tri-mode locomotives. If that's not platform-end wibble then perhaps someone might fancy the idea of some MK5's and locos for the run?.   

[devonexpress]

Bear in mind that the 80x's are 26m long vs 23m for a MK3. There was route clearance along the various routes used by HST^▸ (High Speed Train) stock (plus a few diversionary routes) as part of the IET^▸ (Intercity Express Train) project, but anything else will require that work to be done (assuming that a preliminary analysis doesn't find any big problems), plus potential beefing up of power supplies if you want to run them on third-rail. Then you'd need IET's to be ordered (and Hitachi have a fairly full order book), so it seems a little far-fetched.

There was a suggestion elsewhere that a passenger TOC^▸ (Train Operating Company) was in the market for tri-mode locomotives. If that's not platform-end wibble then perhaps someone might fancy the idea of some MK5's and locos for the run?.   

Tri-mode 769's seem to be either one minute happening and the next minute not, almost like the TOC wanting to buy them so im sure they'll fit in perfectly. I do think HST Castle's would be a good short term option, although Network Rail might not be happy having to upgrade the line again as they already did not long ago for the 166s. 

According to Wikipedia the 158/9 Has 207 seats for a 3 car unit, a 166(288+24) or (192) and 165(186) make 474 seats or 402 with a 2x2 seating on a 166 , a 5 car Castle with a small First Class area would be: 372 + 24 using the composite coach, or 328 + 24 with a full buffet car.  So although a slight downgrade in capacity, there would be more comfort and allow for a trolley service for the entire train.

In relation to the Mk3 bogies, HST's including a 8 coach HST have already been to Portsmouth, although as someone mentioned not along the exact route.

[grahame]

Only partly on this line ... but an illustration of the issues.   From a Facebook friend

Forname Surname is at Dorset County Council.
Oh my days it felt far longer than it took to get here!

3 hours and 6 minutes from Gloucester to Dorchester - on a Turbo ...

[Clan Line]

After my pleasant trip on a SWR^» (South Western Railway - about) 159 - I think my trip today was in an even better carriage.
Nice two tone blue cloth and leather seats, not overly padded but most comfortable. A good smattering of "4 man" tables, plenty of leg room - no "kneesies" underneath ! USB charging sockets and reading lights at every seat. In daylight, only 50% of the fluorescent lights were on. Good width aisle. Nice big windows which lined up with most of the seats............What was this wondrous train ? it wasn't - it was the upper deck of the X3 bus from Salisbury to Bournemouth !!
If bus designers/builders can make such huge improvements why can't they do it on the trains ?

[Trowres]

The rail replacement bus I recently caught also surpassed the replaced Turbo on legroom and unimpeded view

[Timmer]

How sad it’s come to a place when people are saying buses are more comfortable than trains!

[martyjon]

How sad it’s come to a place when people are saying buses are more comfortable than trains!

Was talking to a lady on the new Y1 service to Yate on Wednesday who has switched from rail to the new Y1 because the train was getting too overcrowded and with the accelerated service via the M32 her front door to office desk journey was now only 5 minutes longer than by train.

[eightonedee]

Further to my previous post on this thread, the mystery of how the downgrading of the ex-first class section on the 165s will be achieved has been resolved, at least in relation to two car units.

The first leg of my journey this morning was on a two car unit where half the seats in the cab end of the former second only coach have been replaced by a luggage and cycle rack. I went for the ex-first class section in the other caoch, looking forward to a few minutes of 4 across (relative) comfort into Reading. Instead the section had been refitted with standard class Turbo seats (presumably recycled from the other end and others removed for disabled spaces on other units - they certainly looked well worn, the only new items being shiny floor bolts) in the standard class formation (4 across behind the cab, two rows of facing 5 across, then two rows of forward/cab facing 4 across).

One problem for the amenity of passengers - the end section built as standard class has a small window in the middle of the section, whereas there is a blank panel in the "first" end  where the middle two rows were "back to back" with a small space between them for luggage, often removed now. The lucky occupants of the new third row of seats therefore do not have a window (see attached). Someone has though fitted a new piece of old FGW^▸ (First Great Western) dark blue with white and pink spots lino to replace the distressed carpet! Presumable there are rolls of this store somewhere "just in case"?   

So - I calculate 12 seats removed from the old cab end of the DMOS, the bikes and luggage enjoying a window view all along their side. 16 ex-first seats replaced by 22 standard, five "without" windows at the other end in the ex-composite coach.

But why didn't someone think of converting the ex-first section? (Although - why bother is just as pertinent a question) 

[Clan Line]

I am even more confused ! 
Someone has decreed that "old", 5 abreast seating, Class 165/166 commuter trains from the Thames Valley are now suitable for inter-regional use and are to be used on Cardiff to Portsmouth route.
Whilst wasting time at Paddington the other day I was looking at the new replacement trains (Class 387) for the 165/166 - these have 4 abreast seating !!

So London commuters, apparently, are not expected to suffer 5 abreast seating for, say an hour, from Reading into Paddington but passengers on Cardiff to Portsmouth are now expected to put up with this for, possibly, the best part of 4 hours.................

[Timmer]

So London commuters, apparently, are not expected to suffer 5 abreast seating for, say an hour, from Reading into Paddington but passengers on Cardiff to Portsmouth are now expected to put up with this for, possibly, the best part of 4 hours.................

That’s because no one cares about the Cardiff-Portsmouth line. Just put any rubbish to run this service. 165s/166s were not built for use as a cross country train. It’s best years were when BR^▸ (British Rail(ways)) introduced brand new 158’s to the line. Even today they are still good. GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway) have done a great job with the recent refurb. I for one will be a little sad to see them go. In my opinion the best DMU^▸ (Diesel Multiple Unit) ever built.

[Adrian]

So London commuters, apparently, are not expected to suffer 5 abreast seating for, say an hour, from Reading into Paddington but passengers on Cardiff to Portsmouth are now expected to put up with this for, possibly, the best part of 4 hours.................

I think I remember being told that the average journey length on the Cardiff - Portsmouth route was about 40 minutes.  A large proportion of short-distance commuters.

But for the benefit of the longer distance travellers, wouldn't it have been better to allocate the cut-down HSTs^▸ (High Speed Train) to this line?

[martyjon]

But for the benefit of the longer distance travellers, wouldn't it have been better to allocate the cut-down HSTs^▸ (High Speed Train) to this line?

A bold YES from me.

[PhilWakely]

But for the benefit of the longer distance travellers, wouldn't it have been better to allocate the cut-down HSTs^▸ (High Speed Train) to this line?

A bold YES from me.

Hasn't it been said on here several times that the HSTs are not cleared to run beyond St Denys ?

[martyjon]

But for the benefit of the longer distance travellers, wouldn't it have been better to allocate the cut-down HSTs^▸ (High Speed Train) to this line?

A bold YES from me.

Hasn't it been said on here several times that the HSTs are not cleared to run beyond St Denys ?

There are two types of bogies utilised on the HST Mk3 carriages. LSL^‡(resolve) (long swing link) and SSL^▸ (Short Swing Link bogies (125)) (short swing link) and HST sets  with SSL bogies are cleared to run on third rail electrified lines although there may be local restrictions in some places. Such fitted carriages can be identified by the letters SSL on the carriage ends. HST's have run to Portsmouth Harbour one of which was a VSTP working when one of the Bristol Football teams played Portsmouth and the brains at GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway) worked out that all the fans who travelled out would not be able to be shoehorned into the remaining scheduled services on the day of the match to return to Bristol and fearing unrest the VSTP Zulu special was organised. And, of course the HST operated Summer Saturdays Weymouth Wizard utilised a SSL fitted HST set.