165/166s on this route

[whole diary]

[IndustryInsider]

It lasted a matter or weeks when they first came out!  Then the refit five or so years ago helped and the majority worked for a while, but they seem to have given up trying to maintain them recently so I reckon only a third, perhaps less, of carriages now work.

The system being progressively fitted to the Class 165s does seem much better though and I’ve only once known one not working, which was fine again after the circuit breaker was reset.

[devonexpress]

The best thing to do is to write a letter to the department for transport about how uncomfortable and practical it is, the more people that complain about it now, the more likely it will be put as a requirement in the new franchise.

[grahame]

Details in the attached that was sent by NR^» (Network Rail - home page) to local residents.

From the attached letter ... talking about Bedwyn services - typically 72 minutes to Paddington

The IETs^▸ (Intercity Express Train) provide  These will all help to give passengers a more comfortable journey. At peak times, to supplement the through service, there will be existing diesel trains operating to Newbury alongside the new IETs.

I fully accept that the "existing diesel trains" are fine for shorter suburban journeys, but it strikes me that Network Rail and GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway) who sent this letter have dual standards - for they are talking about making a 72 minute journey much more comfortable with modern, fit-for-purpose trains - yet sending the old ones which they're admitting really aren't up to snuff for such a journey to Cardiff, where they'll be making 200 minute runs to Portsmouth.

Wouldn't it make sense to provide trains with "more seats and tables in standard class, efficient air conditioning systems and a digital reservation system." on the 200 minute run?

[devonexpress]

Details in the attached that was sent by NR^» (Network Rail - home page) to local residents.

From the attached letter ... talking about Bedwyn services - typically 72 minutes to Paddington

The IETs^▸ (Intercity Express Train) provide  These will all help to give passengers a more comfortable journey. At peak times, to supplement the through service, there will be existing diesel trains operating to Newbury alongside the new IETs.

I fully accept that the "existing diesel trains" are fine for shorter suburban journeys, but it strikes me that Network Rail and GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway) who sent this letter have dual standards - for they are talking about making a 72 minute journey much more comfortable with modern, fit-for-purpose trains - yet sending the old ones which they're admitting really aren't up to snuff for such a journey to Cardiff, where they'll be making 200 minute runs to Portsmouth.

Wouldn't it make sense to provide trains with "more seats and tables in standard class, efficient air conditioning systems and a digital reservation system." on the 200 minute run?

Personally I would have rather had the Class 180s being moved over to the Cardiff - Portsmouth route, fixed 5 coach units and perfect for the job.

[CMRail]

I do hope there are new train on the line for next franchise, a 7 year newer train is no upgrade in technology, i’m many ways is a downgrade on the interior side. More reservations, more seats (that are comfortable) and better seating patterns.

[devonexpress]

I do hope there are new train on the line for next franchise, a 7 year newer train is no upgrade in technology, i’m many ways is a downgrade on the interior side. More reservations, more seats (that are comfortable) and better seating patterns.

From the franchise consultation, there are a few option, but new trains will be explored. Don't forget that some TOC^▸ (Train Operating Company)'s will offer to buy them to win the franchise anyway.    The other options are the D stock modified trains for branchlines, and other stock having units to reduce engine emissions.

[JayMac]

Personally I would have rather had the Class 180s being moved over to the Cardiff - Portsmouth route, fixed 5 coach units and perfect for the job.

They aren't cleared to run between Westbury and Portsmouth.

[Richard Fairhurst]

Personally I would have rather had the Class 180s being moved over to the Cardiff - Portsmouth route, fixed 5 coach units and perfect for the job.

Is there much 125mph track between Cardiff and Portsmouth?

(The 175s are likely to become available in 2021/2022, of course, and half the 185 fleet is without a home...)

[grahame]

Personally I would have rather had the Class 180s being moved over to the Cardiff - Portsmouth route, fixed 5 coach units and perfect for the job.

Is there much 125mph track between Cardiff and Portsmouth?

(The 175s are likely to become available in 2021/2022, of course, and half the 185 fleet is without a home...)

Not thrilled with the idea of moving 2 and 3 car units without through corridors (175 and 185) onto Cardiff - Portsmouth.   I was tongue in cheek suggesting 80x - though that's the logic that comes from GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway) and NR^» (Network Rail - home page)'s letters to the folks of the upper Kennet valley about the Bedwyn turn back.

As passenger numbers grow / have grown, 1 car needs have become 2 - 3 car needs, and 2 - 3 car needs become 4 - 5 car needs.  And that's a serious issue where there's a lack of through gangways.    Saying you're increasing capacity by 25% by putting 5 seats across where there were four is naughty / inappropriate for journeys of over an hour (that Bedwyn letter again!).   And if you're going to couple up two trains into a larger one, there's an awfully big financial temptation for any operator (be it First group or another) to hire a bare minimum based on optimistic availability and run short forms far too often.

[Richard Fairhurst]

All 175 coaches are powered, so in theory you might be able to re-form 2x 3-coach as one 4-coach and one 2-coach, though no doubt it would require some head-scratching engineering.

Long-distance regional lines like this are always a bit of a cinderella - destined to be getting cast-offs forever, unless a Fairy Godmother arrives (like the Welsh Assembly...). The glut of new-build orders over the past few years, coupled with the first signs of a ridership downturn in several parts of the network, means that there'll be a lot of fairly recent units going spare.

(The next CrossCountry franchise is going to be particularly interesting from a rolling stock POV!)

[tramway]

Personally I would have rather had the Class 180s being moved over to the Cardiff - Portsmouth route, fixed 5 coach units and perfect for the job.

Is there much 125mph track between Cardiff and Portsmouth?

(The 175s are likely to become available in 2021/2022, of course, and half the 185 fleet is without a home...)

Not a great deal of that on the Edinburgh circular but we're using 67's top and tailed. HST^▸ (High Speed Train) with DVT^‡(resolve) anyone?

[Lee]

Assuming there don't turn out to be any insurmountable obstacles to clearing them, Portsmouth-Cardiff could turn out to be one of the few routes where there could actually be many advantages to introducing 5-coach IET^▸ (Intercity Express Train)'s :

- They could use their electric capabilities under the wires for part of the journey.

- The seating configuration vs capacity balance would be seen as superior to the Turbos.

- Portsmouth-Cardiff passengers are used to trolley service with no hot food.

- One day there may be something that's genuinely seen as better aircon and consistent digital reservations.

- They would enable First Class to be introduced on the route that came top of the list of "routes provided by respondents where First Class accommodation should be provided" in the DfT^» (Department for Transport - about) GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway) Franchise Stakeholder Briefing Document - http://gwr.passenger.chat/gwf_consult_output.pdf

Assuming that nicking the IET's off Bedwyn ultimately leaves them reliant on 769's or something else we rigged up with a couple of loo rolls and some stickyback plastic, then we could always extend the London-Bedwyn services to Pewsey, Westbury and Frome as proposed by TransWilts to compensate ( https://www.transwilts.org/berks-and-hants ) and open Devizes Parkway (number 7 on the list of "schemes with a prospect of being funded cited by respondents" in the DfT GWR Franchise Stakeholder Briefing Document) to boot...

[Adelante_CCT]

Use the 769s on the Cardiff to Portsmouth run instead, that way they can make full use of their tri-mode capabilities!

[Clan Line]

    Saying you're increasing capacity by 25% by putting 5 seats across where there were four is naughty / inappropriate for journeys of over an hour (that Bedwyn letter again!).   

"more than naughty/inappropriate" - I call it insulting 

[Timmer]

I’m pleased to see the Cardiff-Portsmouth line topped the list of where First class should be provided. I think there is a market for it and with 5 carriage trains about to start operating on this route enough seating capacity to do so.