Officially 5 cars?

[whole diary]

[phile]

Warminster 1 o'clock this afternoon.

Two 16?s nailed together heading to Cardiff.  A two car 150 heading for Portsmouth Harbour.

Progress ??

Yes, but walking before running.  There are just supposed to be two sets of 165/166 diagrammed daily, but they haven’t enough to run them both at 5 car.
Paul

Sorry Paul, but I wouldn't describe what is happening on this line as "walking before running". The whole concept of replacing 158s with 165/6s is grossly flawed from the outset. To add insult to injury the existing (now nicely refurbished !) rolling stock is disappearing long before the replacement 165/6s are available and are being substituted by 150s. I don't call this progress - it is little more than a con-trick ! As I said in another thread, this is a repeat of the shambles when FGW^▸ (First Great Western) took over the franchise from Wessex.........except that this time the 3 car 158s are being replaced by 2 car 150s, instead of just 2 car 158s as they were then. Also, this time they are doing it to themselves - absolutely brilliant !!

The 150s were only working it due to a shortage on the day.  It frequently happens on the route, Turbos or not

[Clan Line]

Yes, but there seem to be more and more days when there are "shortages". It used to be a bit of a rarity to see 150s working the Portsmouth trains - it isn't any more. The Gt Malvern services from Warminster & Southampton were often 150s, they were replaced by Turbos some months ago - the displaced 150s are still here being put to other use.

[TaplowGreen]

Having spent many years pootling to and fro Taplow/Paddington on ageing, overcrowded Turbos with all their foibles and shortcomings, I really don't envy anyone going all the way from Cardiff to Portsmouth on one.

[IndustryInsider]

Given the choice of a totally wedged 3-car 158 or a 5-car Turbo with room to spare on that route and I know which I’d choose.  Shame it couldn’t be 6-car 158s or 6-car 185s, or 5/6-car new build Bi-modes mind you.

[phile]

Yes, but there seem to be more and more days when there are "shortages". It used to be a bit of a rarity to see 150s working the Portsmouth trains - it isn't any more. The Gt Malvern services from Warminster & Southampton were often 150s, they were replaced by Turbos some months ago - the displaced 150s are still here being put to other use.

The displaced 150s have transferred to the West of England but still visit but not in same numbers

[TaplowGreen]

Given the choice of a totally wedged 3-car 158 or a 5-car Turbo with room to spare on that route and I know which I’d choose.  Shame it couldn’t be 6-car 158s or 6-car 185s, or 5/6-car new build Bi-modes mind you.

Perhaps, but over 3 hours on a Turbo? That's a pretty awful prospect, I cannot imagine that those trains were designed with such "long haul" trips in mind for passengers.

I can't imagine doing Reading to Plymouth on a Turbo.

Replacing one bad thing with a slightly less bad thing represents very little in terms of progress.

[grahame]

Perhaps, but over 3 hours on a Turbo? That's a pretty awful prospect, I cannot imagine that those trains were designed with such "long haul" trips in mind for passengers.

The idea of travelling 3 hours and 20 minutes - 200 minutes - on a turbo fills me with horror. That's a longer journey than London to Plymouth - and just imaging what the people of Plymouth would have to say about the turbo seating if it were fitted to an IET^▸ (Intercity Express Train) - the current grouches about hard seats and lack of buffet would look like just an opening skirmish.

But ...

The Cardiff to Portsmouth service suffers "Cross Country Syndrome". Just as the number of passengers departing on the 09:25 from Plymouth (the Dundee train) travelling all the way to Dundee is probably pretty small, so I suspect the number leaving Cardiff Central on a Portsmouth Harbour train and actually travelling to Portsmouth Harbour is likely to be pretty small.    Yes - there are noticeable numbers of through passengers at Birmingham / Sheffield / Newcastle / Edinburgh (or Bristol / Bath Spa / Salisbury / Southampton) but there's also a very high proportion of people off and on.   And many other people are using both of the trains in these examples for much shorter intermediate journeys, never going anywhere neither either end of the route, and not staying on the train for anything like the full journey time.

Does anyone here have a breakdown (or the knowledge to guess) how long / how many miles the average passenger on a Cadiff to Portsmouth train does on that train.   Or have any idea if they went through the train and surveyed at a random point how the journey times of people on there would break down?    I actually suspect you might find that the highest proportion of  people sitting on a turbo operating out of Bristol for over 80 minutes would be found if you surveyed as the train ran between Yeovil Pen Mill and Castle Cary!

[Adrian]

Perhaps, but over 3 hours on a Turbo? That's a pretty awful prospect, I cannot imagine that those trains were designed with such "long haul" trips in mind for passengers.

I think going the whole distance on the 0900 Cardiff to Penzance (a 150) is an even worse prospect.

[didcotdean]

There should be people here who have found themselves on a two carriage turbo for 3+ hours from Hereford to London ...

[IndustryInsider]

Given the choice of a totally wedged 3-car 158 or a 5-car Turbo with room to spare on that route and I know which I’d choose.  Shame it couldn’t be 6-car 158s or 6-car 185s, or 5/6-car new build Bi-modes mind you.

Perhaps, but over 3 hours on a Turbo? That's a pretty awful prospect, I cannot imagine that those trains were designed with such "long haul" trips in mind for passengers.

I can't imagine doing Reading to Plymouth on a Turbo.

Replacing one bad thing with a slightly less bad thing represents very little in terms of progress.

I'm not suggesting it's a perfect solution (in fact I even suggested what the perfect solution might be), but as didcotdean points out, they've been working journeys over over three hours since they were built nearly 30 years ago now in the form of Hereford to Paddington.

For me, Turbo's are fine if not too crowded, but I totally understand that your average journey on the inner Thames Valley routes would often be very crowded.  However, as Graham says, the number of long distance journeys is actually a small percentage.

[paul7575]

My main experience over the years is on the Southampton to Portsmouth Harbour stretch of the route, and I’d estimate that sometimes about 25-30% of those on the train don’t pass through Southampton.  It will be interesting to see if the forthcoming SWR^» (South Western Railway - about) fast service between Portsmouth and Southampton, which will take a similar time but in a 450, will draw many passengers away from the GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway) services. 

I guess much will depend on how it fits in with respect to changes to/from other services at Southampton?  Certainly with 5 services between Cosham or Fareham and Southampton (including the SWR all stations, and the 2 Southerns), there’s no obvious reason to choose the GWR over the 3 that will be one stop at Swanwick.  Being EMUs^▸ (Electric Multiple Unit) they should be as fast including the stop.

Paul

[Clan Line]

Seems to be a pair of the 165/166 combos regularly working to Portsmouth now. I must say they are a lot better looking than the 158s - externally anyway !

I have noticed that the drivers seem to approach the stations a lot more slowly that the 158s do. Are the brakes particularly sensitive or is this just relatively new drivers getting used to their new charges ?



1109 to P Harbour approaching Warminster this morning.

[brooklea]

I have noticed that the drivers seem to approach the stations a lot more slowly that the 158s do. Are the brakes particularly sensitive or is this just relatively new drivers getting used to their new charges ?

1109 to P Harbour approaching Warminster this morning.

They will seem slow approaching Warminster from Westbury as there’s a 15mph speed restriction for Turbos through that particular platform.

[Clan Line]

Ah ha ! Thank you.  However, I must ask why - as they have just rebuilt the whole of that platform as part of the lengthening process. 

[brooklea]

Ah ha ! Thank you.  However, I must ask why - as they have just rebuilt the whole of that platform as part of the lengthening process. 

I suggest you ask Network Rail....!