Cross country - Long Distance, or providing full line service?

[whole diary]

[rower40]

My daily commute uses a (an?) XC^▸ (Cross Country Trains (franchise)) class 170 for the 7 miles between Willington & Derby.
Willington has a basic 2-hourly service, doubling to hourly(!) in the peaks.
I realise that a 170 stopping all stations between Derby and Birmingham has a huge impact on capacity for pathing Voyagers on that 2-track section.  But I wish the gap between the 1517 and 1717 Willington arrivals could be filled.
Branston 4-track, anyone?

[grahame]

Some very good points.

As I set up the poll and question, I did consider including example of stopping patterns for the Bournemouth trains as well as for the Plymouth ones, but decided that would make for a very long post even by my standards.  But the Bournemouth service crosses over the GW^▸ (Great Western) area from north Oxfordshire to north Hampshire - a fleeting visit compared to the near-Worcester to Penzance run of the other leg.     Agreed there is a useful discussion to be had around a Didcot stop - Swindon to Birmingham and beyond is truly awful at present via either leg!

"As we are" is, maybe, an option I should have provided.  It can't be 100% followed unless you want to have a station with no trains calling at Worcester Parkway on the Birmingham to the South West line. 

I totally agree that capacity is the biggest issue. And the other two big issues are decent connections - noting that 1 in 2 cross-country journeys at present involvs a change to and/or from another operator - and customer service sorting out the obnoxious reservation system, some of the ludicrous elements of fares, getting the trains to smell a bit better and actually providing the free WiFi which is in the current operator's contract but hasn't come in due to "technical issues".

[JayMac]

I don't agree that the reservation system is 'obnoxious'. It is a largely positive innovation, despite the negativity toward it from rail forums.

[ChrisB]

It works for the new customer, not for those already sitting in any seat that might be reserved further into the journey. If these are the only empty seats available, why should one get chucked out of a seat that was empty and available when boarding?

If there was a way for the seat to be marked reserved by those taking them on boarding, then yes, I completely agree with you. But not everyone can access their 10 minute boarding webpage to book.

[grahame]

There is somewhat more to this seat reservation business that just Advanced Purchase on Day, which I think is only a small proportion of seats at yet.

Seat reservations are no extra charge on top of train fares, and booking engines encourage (or even force?) you to make them on tickets which are transferrable between trains. The net result is a "sea" of unoccupied reserved seats, which people without reservations, or with a reservation on a different train, will take rather than standing up - with the more knowledgeable people looking for a reserve seat that's reserved from a starting station that's already been passed.

On GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway) HST^▸ (High Speed Train) services (and on IET^▸ (Intercity Express Train) services using paper tags, and on 158s on the  Cardiff to Portsmouth run), if seats are reserved for two none-overlapping sections of the journey, the paper tag shows each section - I have seen up to three reservations on the same seat - and a judgement can be made before sitting down.

XC^▸ (Cross Country Trains (franchise)) is different.   Take Saturday.  I joined the pretty heavily packed train southbound at Wolverhampton, and managed to find myself a seat reserved from Stafford to Birmingham International.   That's all it said.  But then when the train got to Coventry, up had popped a reservation for the next part of the journey ... and it's a case of shuffle around and find another seat.   With a system such as the GWR one I described above, I could have checked / known ahead / perhaps seated myself all the way to Reading.  But XC didn't give me the data I needed.

You may ask why - if I'm fussed - I hadn't reserved a seat ahead?   Because I was only on that train at the last minute, having had the train I was supposed to be using cancelled.   So it's double ironic that having been mucked about by a cancellation, I'm the one who gets mucked about again by a reservation system which - sorry - was not fit for my purpose.

No comment on reservations using the electronic system on GWR IETs yet - not seen enough of them in proper action to give an opinion.

[ChrisB]

Ahhh, tha\t's a different part of their system to the one usually seen....which is the 10 minute (ahead) ability took a seat just 10 minutes before boarding your train.

There are many 'This seat may be reserved en route' seats on XC^▸ (Cross Country Trains (franchise)) - more %-wise on Voyagers than HSTs^▸ (High Speed Train). Until reserved, they show that message. People do know to avoid them, so they are the last seats free on any full journey. But they can be reserved at any stage in that journey, after it has begun. People find an empty seat on busy trains and will sit in it - and which stage, it is 'reserved' generally until you leave it, unless already reserved when you sit down.

XC say 'b*ll*cks to you, we'll give the seat to someone else yet to board, and kick you out (to probably stand). That is far inequitable than not being able to see a reservation beyond a current one frankly

[IndustryInsider]

In truth, both situations make travelling on many XC^▸ (Cross Country Trains (franchise)) services without a reservation a very poor customer experience.

[Tim]

If I was in charge, I'd continue/restart the GWML^▸ (Great Western Main Line) electrification programme (at a much slower rate over 10 to 15 years which the funders and engineers could cope with better) to Swansea first then, W-S-M, then Taunton, then Exeter.

During that time I'd use some off-lease HSTs^▸ (High Speed Train) to boost capacity and comfort on XC^▸ (Cross Country Trains (franchise)).

In 10 years time, I'd start replacing some of our 5-car IEP^▸ (Intercity Express Program / Project.) trains with 9 car all electric models capable of 135/140 mph under new signalling on the basis that 5 car trains are and always have been stupid on main line trunk services, and cascade the 5 car IEPs to cross country where their bimode capabilities could be used and they would be a step up in terms of capacity and quality (and maybe speed on the electric bits) from the Voyagers.  The Voyagers could live out their final days before scrapping on secondary XC routes (Cardiff-Derby) and on interregional services like the Welsh marches lines.  Once GWML electrification had been completed at least to Swansea and Exeter (both ways), I would start picking off gaps in the wires on XC routes  starting with Cardiff-Derby (allowing Voyagers to be scrapped), and finishing up with Birmingham to Plymouth and Edinburgh to Aberdeen getting wires in 30 years time in time for the IEPs to be retired. 

[didcotdean]

It works for the new customer, not for those already sitting in any seat that might be reserved further into the journey. If these are the only empty seats available, why should one get chucked out of a seat that was empty and available when boarding?

If there was a way for the seat to be marked reserved by those taking them on boarding, then yes, I completely agree with you. But not everyone can access their 10 minute boarding webpage to book.

Maybe there needs to be a pressure sensor in the seat ...

[Tim]

It works for the new customer, not for those already sitting in any seat that might be reserved further into the journey. If these are the only empty seats available, why should one get chucked out of a seat that was empty and available when boarding?

If there was a way for the seat to be marked reserved by those taking them on boarding, then yes, I completely agree with you. But not everyone can access their 10 minute boarding webpage to book.

Maybe there needs to be a pressure sensor in the seat ...

Maybe they just need to stop offering advanced fares once the journey has begun just like better-run franchises do. 

[eightf48544]

My daily commute uses a (an?) XC^▸ (Cross Country Trains (franchise)) class 170 for the 7 miles between Willington & Derby.
Willington has a basic 2-hourly service, doubling to hourly(!) in the peaks.
I realise that a 170 stopping all stations between Derby and Birmingham has a huge impact on capacity for pathing Voyagers on that 2-track section.  But I wish the gap between the 1517 and 1717 Willington arrivals could be filled.
Branston 4-track, anyone?

I

I think rower's commute makes my point about XC being all things to all men. Surely Willington should  be served by an hourly Birmingham Derby/ Nottingham RB service provided by whoever happens to be running the Birmingham suburban service at the time.

XC should not stop at Burton but maybe occasionally Tamworth for WCML^▸ (West Coast Main Line) connections.

It is sometimes quicker to do Euston Tamworth for Burton rather than changing at Derby.

[ChrisB]

Hmmm. No one else stops at Burton....but yes, far better that the local Birmingham franchise did. They run the station, but don't serve it!

[JayMac]

The local Birmingham franchise, West Midlands Trains, doesn't operate Burton-on-Trent Station.

East Midlands Trains do.

[grahame]

Hmmm. No one else stops at Burton....but yes, far better that the local Birmingham franchise did. They run the station, but don't serve it!

The local Birmingham franchise, West Midlands Trains, doesn't operate Burton-on-Trent Station.

East Midlands Trains do.

Water Orton and Coleshill and both served by Cross Country only, but operated by West Midlands Trains.

There is a question or two in the franchise about whether the Cross Country franchise is really the right place for the services that call at these stations, which are distinctly local in nature.    I haven't stirred any pots on this subject on the forum - it's out of area and may only be of marginal interest to members - but then Willington has cropped up, so it may be rather more than marginal.   Interesting to hear views.

[eightf48544]

There is a question or two in the franchise about whether the Cross Country franchise is really the right place for the services that call at these stations, which are distinctly local in nature.    I haven't stirred any pots on this subject on the forum - it's out of area and may only be of marginal interest to members - but then Willington has cropped up, so it may be rather more than marginal.   Interesting to hear views.

My view is that one of the problems with the railways, and in my view the failing of the Beeching report, is that we are still talking about individual stations, and services rather than looking at Network and working out the optimum routes and stopping patterns.

Rail freight was much better at rationalising routes by building spurs to connect different lines. May of which were still had their original pre grouping pattern of traffic. The East to North  Spur at Shirebrook enabled a number of collieries to be single served from the LDEC  via Toton or Worksop to the various power stations.

BR^▸ (British Rail(ways)) also built several spurs in South Wales which enabled lengths of duplicate lines and  engineering structures, including in one instance, a tunnel and viaduct to be lifted.

There was even a spur in Poplar which enabled most of the London and Blackwell railway to be closed. The viaduct from Limehouse to West India Dock become part of the DLR^▸ (Docklands Light Railway).

If you look at many services they are still pregrouping eg GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway) to Portsmouth