IET Train First Class Carriages

[whole diary]

[IndustryInsider]

The Adelantes were a failure from the capacity point of view, too short.
Also unreliable, especially in warm weather.

The internal layout was better than an IET^▸ (Intercity Express Train), but that is not saying much.

They were just about perfect capacity wise for the Cotswold Line duties they spent most of their lives doing.

In my opinion the internal layout was better than anything ever seen in a HST^▸ (High Speed Train) carriage.

[Clan Line]

The Adelantes were a failure from the capacity point of view, too short.
Also unreliable, especially in warm weather.

The internal layout was better than an IET^▸ (Intercity Express Train), but that is not saying much.

They were just about perfect capacity wise for the Cotswold Line duties they spent most of their lives doing.

In my opinion the internal layout was better than anything ever seen in a HST^▸ (High Speed Train) carriage.

My criticism of the 180s was solely aimed at the fact that they were totally the wrong train being used in the wrong place.  My recollection of them was that I had no major complaint about them. Seats/legroom/fixtures and fittings all seemed to be quite acceptable. I remember the ride being very good. The only slightly negative point was the engine noise, but even that was not too bad - just noticeable. I can't comment on their reliability - I don't recollect one breaking down on me.

Just to add to my tale of woe, earlier in this thread. The trip to PAD^» (Paddington (London) - next trains) was in a 125 - it ran like a sewing machine, we were sitting in the middle of the train (D) and the ride was smooth and almost totally silent. The return in the IET was my first experience of one of these at full speed  - the ride was not very good and there did seem to be a lot of "tyre noise" - the 125 was much better in all respects on that front. On electric power the acceleration of the IET was very good. It did run to time as well !

I have just re-booked tickets for a similar event in London next year - I have specifically booked for a Saturday this time, so we can travel in comfort on SWR^» (South Western Railway - about) from/to Warminster. I really liked traveling in a 125 - I will do my utmost, in future, to avoid any distance travel in an IET.

[IndustryInsider]

Interesting to hear your comments regarding ride quality.  I can honestly say that I find the IETs^▸ (Intercity Express Train) to be absolutely fine in that regard, having made 100 or so trips on them now.  Certainly no worse than a HST^▸ (High Speed Train), and sometimes better if you’re on a HST where the power cars are not in perfect sync and you get the resulting jerking and snatching.  Ride quality is as much about the state of the track than the train of course, and it’s usually better in the centre of the carriage than above the bogies for obvious reasons.

Before I give anyone the impression of being an apologist though, I totally agree that the quality of the first class offering has reduced significantly on the new trains.

[Dispatch Box]

The Adelantes were a failure from the capacity point of view, too short.
Also unreliable, especially in warm weather.

The internal layout was better than an IET^▸ (Intercity Express Train), but that is not saying much.

They were just about perfect capacity wise for the Cotswold Line duties they spent most of their lives doing.

In my opinion the internal layout was better than anything ever seen in a HST^▸ (High Speed Train) carriage.

My criticism of the 180s was solely aimed at the fact that they were totally the wrong train being used in the wrong place.  My recollection of them was that I had no major complaint about them. Seats/legroom/fixtures and fittings all seemed to be quite acceptable. I remember the ride being very good. The only slightly negative point was the engine noise, but even that was not too bad - just noticeable. I can't comment on their reliability - I don't recollect one breaking down on me.

Just to add to my tale of woe, earlier in this thread. The trip to PAD^» (Paddington (London) - next trains) was in a 125 - it ran like a sewing machine, we were sitting in the middle of the train (D) and the ride was smooth and almost totally silent. The return in the IET was my first experience of one of these at full speed  - the ride was not very good and there did seem to be a lot of "tyre noise" - the 125 was much better in all respects on that front. On electric power the acceleration of the IET was very good. It did run to time as well !

I have just re-booked tickets for a similar event in London next year - I have specifically booked for a Saturday this time, so we can travel in comfort on SWR^» (South Western Railway - about) from/to Warminster. I really liked traveling in a 125 - I will do my utmost, in future, to avoid any distance travel in an IET.

That is because the Intercity 125 was I think, built in Britain, In Derby. Those IETS Are built abroad, ar,nt they?

[didcotdean]

In my opinion the internal layout [Adelante] was better than anything ever seen in a HST^▸ (High Speed Train) carriage.

The one design shortcoming (as opposed to reliability etc) I remember was that only quite small items fitted into the overhead storage; significantly poorer in that respect compared with both the HST and now IET^▸ (Intercity Express Train).

[grahame]

That is because the Intercity 125 was I think, built in Britain, In Derby. Those IETS Are built abroad, ar,nt they?

The IETs^▸ (Intercity Express Train) are built in England (Newton Aycliffe), Italy and Japan, and I think most passengers would have great difficulty telling you where the train they happened to be on was built.  Not sure how comfort or quality of ride relates to the build country -  perhaps you could enlighten us?   Much more to do with specification, design, and a whole host of safety and other issues with regards what materials and design parameters must be applied these days.

[Dispatch Box]

That is because the Intercity 125 was I think, built in Britain, In Derby. Those IETS Are built abroad, ar,nt they?

The IETs^▸ (Intercity Express Train) are built in England (Newton Aycliffe), Italy and Japan, and I think most passengers would have great difficulty telling you where the train they happened to be on was built.  Not sure how comfort or quality of ride relates to the build country -  perhaps you could enlighten us?   Much more to do with specification, design, and a whole host of safety and other issues with regards what materials and design parameters must be applied these days.

Are those the right countries, I was told by A Member of Staff that they were all made in Spain. Anyway the HST^▸ (High Speed Train),S Were the Trains that some say, saved British Rail, There was a programme some months ago about them on tv. Firstly there was the APT^▸ (Advanced Passenger Train), But you should ride a HST From Cheltenham, The ride is like being on a roller coaster, they bounce up and down, been like it for several years now.

[1st fan]

The wretched Adelantes were also a failure, less conspicuous only because there where not that many of them.

Best internal layout of any train in recent times, with acres of legroom, comfy seats, loads of tables, ample first class and even a buffet and they still get described as wretched and a failure?

Ok, well they certainly failed a lot!

My only criticism of the Adelante was that 1st was in the middle of the train. Apart from that I quite liked them.

[Clan Line]

My only criticism of the Adelante was that 1st was in the middle of the train. Apart from that I quite liked them.

I think that was a good point compared to the 5 car IETs^▸ (Intercity Express Train). On a 10 car 180 you always knew where 1st would be; on a 10 car IET you have a 1 in 4 chance of knowing where 1st is !

[IndustryInsider]

My only criticism of the Adelante was that 1st was in the middle of the train. Apart from that I quite liked them.

I think that was a good point compared to the 5 car IETs^▸ (Intercity Express Train). On a 10 car 180 you always knew where 1st would be; on a 10 car IET you have a 1 in 4 chance of knowing where 1st is !

Not quite true, as 1st Class was in either the second or fourth vehicle on a 180, so on a 10-car formation (which didn't operate often anyway) you still had a 1 in 4 chance as they could be in 2 and 7, 4 and 7, 4 and 9, or 2 and 9.  I take your point that it's not as bad as when the IETs get swapped round though!  Hopefully formations will settle down (amongst many other things) when all units are delivered and diagrams settle into their eventual semi-permanent state.

[JontyMort]

My only criticism of the Adelante was that 1st was in the middle of the train. Apart from that I quite liked them.

I think that was a good point compared to the 5 car IETs^▸ (Intercity Express Train). On a 10 car 180 you always knew where 1st would be; on a 10 car IET you have a 1 in 4 chance of knowing where 1st is !

Not quite true, as 1st Class was in either the second or fourth vehicle on a 180, so on a 10-car formation (which didn't operate often anyway) you still had a 1 in 4 chance as they could be in 2 and 7, 4 and 7, 4 and 9, or 2 and 9.  I take your point that it's not as bad as when the IETs get swapped round though!  Hopefully formations will settle down (amongst many other things) when all units are delivered and diagrams settle into their eventual semi-permanent state.

Having first other than at one end is never a good idea, since it tends to reinforce the view - mentioned upthread - that first is a corridor to be walked through to get to standard.

While the Adelantes were operationally suited to the Cotswold line, they always gave the impression of being unloved, in the sense that nobody ever quite got round to sorting out the ridiculously noisy "fingers down the blackboard" brakes or the lumpy idle. They share the latter with the Voyagers but are even worse - no problem at full chat, but horrible in stations.

In those respects the 5-car IET sets are better.

[IndustryInsider]

180s and Voyagers have very similar engines I believe.  IETs^▸ (Intercity Express Train) are very quiet on diesel in comparison as you might expect with over 15 years of development.

Paddington is becoming eerily quiet these days. 

[1st fan]

My only criticism of the Adelante was that 1st was in the middle of the train. Apart from that I quite liked them.

I think that was a good point compared to the 5 car IETs^▸ (Intercity Express Train). On a 10 car 180 you always knew where 1st would be; on a 10 car IET you have a 1 in 4 chance of knowing where 1st is !

Not quite true, as 1st Class was in either the second or fourth vehicle on a 180, so on a 10-car formation (which didn't operate often anyway) you still had a 1 in 4 chance as they could be in 2 and 7, 4 and 7, 4 and 9, or 2 and 9.  I take your point that it's not as bad as when the IETs get swapped round though!  Hopefully formations will settle down (amongst many other things) when all units are delivered and diagrams settle into their eventual semi-permanent state.

Having first other than at one end is never a good idea, since it tends to reinforce the view - mentioned upthread - that first is a corridor to be walked through to get to standard.

While the Adelantes were operationally suited to the Cotswold line, they always gave the impression of being unloved, in the sense that nobody ever quite got round to sorting out the ridiculously noisy "fingers down the blackboard" brakes or the lumpy idle. They share the latter with the Voyagers but are even worse - no problem at full chat, but horrible in stations.

In those respects the 5-car IET sets are better.

Except that there are those who wouldn't board and walk through a 1st carriage. Friends of mine (for the same reason as me) find it quicker to go along the platform if looking for a seat in standard*. Those people may well (and in my experience will) board a standard class carriage and walk through 1st looking for a standard class seat. *In my experience people walk through 1st only when the train is due to leave in under ~3 minutes and think they might miss the train. One Friday night with an HST^▸ (High Speed Train) in reverse formation leaving Paddington someone sitting in the near me was turfed out of 1st by the train manager. He'd walked the length of the train on the platform to 1st and sat down. Then when challenged claimed to have a bad leg and needed a 1st seat as a result. Train manager was having none of it having watched him walking down there without a problem.