Trimode cl 769 to operate Reading to Oxford and Gatwick.

[whole diary]

[eightonedee]

Thanks for that. I guess we are used to aspirational dates not being met!

Speaking personally/selfishly (but I guess on behalf of most Tilehurst to Cholsey travellers), I think I/we would prefer going back to most services having only limited or no stops between Reading and Paddington to cut journey times to London without changing at Reading. From the Crossrail publicity it seems that when (eventually) Elizabeth Line starts there will only be 2 GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway) "stopping" trains each hour off peak running east of Reading (see-http://74f85f59f39b887b696f-ab656259048fb93837ecc0ecbcf0c557.r23.cf3.rackcdn.com/assets/library/document/e/original/elizabeth_line_service_pattern-reading_to_central_london.pdfng), and these stopping only at Twyford, Maidenhead and Slough, so we could eventually achieve that.

[eightonedee]

Any update on the departure of the 153s?

.....or any update on the arrival of the 769s?

[bobm]

Two unconverted 319s have arrived at Reading Depot so driver training can start.



The first converted 769 is due in July

[ray951]

Two unconverted 319s have arrived at Reading Depot so driver training can start.

The first converted 769 is due in July

I notice you didn't say which year. 😀😀

And does anybody know whether these are destined for Reading - Didcot - Oxford - Banbury services?

And if not, what has GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway) got planned for that route given that most services have gone backwards, in terms of numbers of seats, since electrification  was cancelled/postponed and most 3 car 165/166 sent west?

[bobm]

By April next year GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway) hope to have 19 class 769s.  Clearly the North Downs service doesn't need that many so obviously some will be used elsewhere but I haven't seen any definitive plans.

[grahame]

Just posted ... rumour of delivery.   It's been so long this thread was dormant!

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Rumour has it that the first 769 will be delivered in May (now September) but won't be in service until December at the earliest.

Also Network Rail are saying it will have to run on Diesel power, all the way from Oxford to Gatwick! Due to incompatible electricfication.

This is despite a good portion of the route having third rail or 25Kv electrification and the 769s as 319s having worked successfully as bimode electrics from Bedford to Brighton for many years.

Moderators i tried to find the 769 thread but it did't come up so please move.
 

[Fourbee]

I remember when the turbos were delivered, the brand new smell, fresh NSE^▸ (Network South East) paint job, working aircon on the 166s (well, for a time at least)...compared to the heritage DMUs^▸ (Diesel Multiple Unit) they replaced they were a step change.

Will I be able to say the same this time round?

[Timmer]

If this rumour is true than that’s an absolute joke that the 769s won’t be able to run on electricity which is the whole point of a trimode train!

That’s an embarrassment but then the railways are good at that.

[Electric train]

Rumour has it that the first 769 will be delivered in May (now September) but won't be in service until December at the earliest.

Also Network Rail are saying it will have to run on Diesel power, all the way from Oxford to Gatwick! Due to incompatible electricfication.

This is despite a good portion of the route having third rail or 25Kv electrification and the 769s as 319s having worked successfully as bimode electrics from Bedford to Brighton for many years.
 

The reason may be due to a number of things,  The 769 (ex319) Pan may not be passed to operate on GW^▸ (Great Western), the traction package may have some EMC^▸ (ElectroMagnetic Compatibility) issues on GW and SR^‡(resolve) Wessex route.

The GW route may not have the clearance for the third rail shoe gear (the 387 shoe gear is retractable)

The testing of the incompatibilities is paid for by the TOC^▸ (Train Operating Company) as would be the enabling the GW route for shoe gear

[eXPassenger]

Surely GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway) would have considered Electric Train's points before ordering a few trimode trains?  If they cannot use the AC or DC^▸ (Direct Current) inputs on the 769 why use them over pure diesels?

[IndustryInsider]

They should be fine on AC - though with limited opportunities to use it.  There is a massive scarcity of pure diesel trains (other than new orders, which isn’t really an option for any franchises under a short-term direct award), so it’s as much about capacity as anything else.

Though it will be a great shame if they can’t use DC^▸ (Direct Current), even if not immediately.

[eightonedee]

Though it will be a great shame if they can’t use DC^▸ (Direct Current), even if not immediately.

It is just one of many "great shames" about this whole episode. At least Vivarail have the excuse of being a small scale start up, whereas Wabtec are meant to be one of the world's leading suppliers of rolling stock. There seems to be a message here - don't think that recycling old trains will be a quick method of providing much-needed rolling stock. It seems no quicker than starting form scratch.

[grahame]

They should be fine on AC - though with limited opportunities to use it.  There is a massive scarcity of pure diesel trains (other than new orders, which isn’t really an option for any franchises under a short-term direct award), so it’s as much about capacity as anything else.

Though it will be a great shame if they can’t use DC^▸ (Direct Current), even if not immediately.

To be clear .... that's runnable pure diesel trains, isn't it?  We're seeing pictures of Pacers being cut up, and the first High Speed Train (HST^▸ (High Speed Train)) set has gone for scrap while others are stored at Ely and Long Marston.   Those are far from what's now regarded as ideal modern trains but where it "has had to" the government has used its dispensations to allow the old stuff to continue in service for a while.


Edit: VickiS - Clarifying acronyms

[mjones]

If they can only run on diesel,  can they match 165/6 performance on the  North Downs line? Indeed, just on the fairly flat Didcot to Reading run they could struggle to fit in around electric services.  To see journey times worsen after such an expensive electrification programme is going be embarrassing.

[IndustryInsider]

If they can only run on diesel,  can they match 165/6 performance on the  North Downs line? Indeed, just on the fairly flat Didcot to Reading run they could struggle to fit in around electric services.  To see journey times worsen after such an expensive electrification programme is going be embarrassing.

On the North Downs, nearly but not quite I think.  They currently aren’t planned to be used between Didcot and Reading, though if they were that could be under AC.