Rail companies launch "Partnership for Britain’s Prosperity"

[whole diary]

[ChrisB]

I'm not sure how/whether there are sufficent IETs^▸ (Intercity Express Train) to step up to hourly on the semi-fast.....aren't they all allocated (either in service or being serviced)

[grahame]

I'm not sure how/whether there are sufficent IETs^▸ (Intercity Express Train) to step up to hourly on the semi-fast.....aren't they all allocated (either in service or being serviced)

Oh - it's a pretty good bet that ordering will have been pared down to provide just enough trains to handle the initial requirements and number being serviced at any time.

Looking at London to Exeter - semi-fast every 2 hours is probably 4 trains, rising to 7 trains if you make it every hour. If the London to Exeter semi-fast also takes on the roll of the Bedwyn services, I think that's three trains available to add to the four of the two-hourly service - your same total of 7.   Not sure if long enough is allowed for turn around in these sums, nor it there are proposals to have more complex diagrams to use up the odd spare half hour.

[IndustryInsider]

I'm not sure how/whether there are sufficent IETs^▸ (Intercity Express Train) to step up to hourly on the semi-fast.....aren't they all allocated (either in service or being serviced)

Oh - it's a pretty good bet that ordering will have been pared down to provide just enough trains to handle the initial requirements and number being serviced at any time.

Looking at London to Exeter - semi-fast every 2 hours is probably 4 trains, rising to 7 trains if you make it every hour. If the London to Exeter semi-fast also takes on the roll of the Bedwyn services, I think that's three trains available to add to the four of the two-hourly service - your same total of 7.   Not sure if long enough is allowed for turn around in these sums, nor it there are proposals to have more complex diagrams to use up the odd spare half hour.

You also dilute the benefit in terms of journey times to places like Castle Cary if you make too many stops, but then again an hourly frequency to there, Pewsey and Westbury is obviously of benefit.  Certainly Hungerford might have a case, but not so sure about the traffic levels from Kintbury and Thatcham heading west.  Perhaps they could run one to/from Frome every other hour and one to/from Exeter the other hour making those stops Graham suggests?  That would reduce the demand on resources, yet still tick as many boxes as possible.  They would likely be 5-car sets off peak though, so would there be enough seats?

Tiverton Parkway is indeed a bit of a special case, so perhaps stopping the fast trains there is better than the semi-fasts, but of course that adds to the journey times to and from Exeter and further west from London.  Perhaps one fast train could stop at Tiverton but miss out Totnes, and the next do the opposite with the semi-fasts still calling to give an hourly frequency (at irregular timings) at Tiverton.  But then Totnes will suffer from what is largely an hourly service to and from London for much of the day.

Unless new stations such as Devizes Parkway, Collumpton, and Little Bedwyn are very firmly in the pipeline (i.e. under construction or fully funded) then whilst you might have one eye on the future, the service shouldn't be specified around them in my opinion.

Lots to juggle to find the best compromise, and no matter how many you please, there's bound to be someone who ends up with a worse service!   

[TaplowGreen]

I'm not sure how/whether there are sufficent IETs^▸ (Intercity Express Train) to step up to hourly on the semi-fast.....aren't they all allocated (either in service or being serviced)

Oh - it's a pretty good bet that ordering will have been pared down to provide just enough trains to handle the initial requirements and number being serviced at any time.

Looking at London to Exeter - semi-fast every 2 hours is probably 4 trains, rising to 7 trains if you make it every hour. If the London to Exeter semi-fast also takes on the roll of the Bedwyn services, I think that's three trains available to add to the four of the two-hourly service - your same total of 7.   Not sure if long enough is allowed for turn around in these sums, nor it there are proposals to have more complex diagrams to use up the odd spare half hour.

You also dilute the benefit in terms of journey times to places like Castle Cary if you make too many stops, but then again an hourly frequency to there, Pewsey and Westbury is obviously of benefit.  Certainly Hungerford might have a case, but not so sure about the traffic levels from Kintbury and Thatcham heading west.  Perhaps they could run one to/from Frome every other hour and one to/from Exeter the other hour making those stops Graham suggests?  That would reduce the demand on resources, yet still tick as many boxes as possible.  They would likely be 5-car sets off peak though, so would there be enough seats?

Tiverton Parkway is indeed a bit of a special case, so perhaps stopping the fast trains there is better than the semi-fasts, but of course that adds to the journey times to and from Exeter and further west from London.  Perhaps one fast train could stop at Tiverton but miss out Totnes, and the next do the opposite with the semi-fasts still calling to give an hourly frequency (at irregular timings) at Tiverton.  But then Totnes will suffer from what is largely an hourly service to and from London for much of the day.

Unless new stations such as Devizes Parkway, Collumpton, and Little Bedwyn are very firmly in the pipeline (i.e. under construction or fully funded) then whilst you might have one eye on the future, the service shouldn't be specified around them in my opinion.

Lots to juggle to find the best compromise, and no matter how many you please, there's bound to be someone who ends up with a worse service!   

I agree it's starting to sound like a "stopper" to the South West if this wish list becomes reality - I'm sure Theale, Thatcham, Kintbury, Hungerford, Bedwyn etc all warrant a service however surely these should be provided by 387s allowing the 800s to be "fast", stopping at major stations on their way to the South West, cutting journey times as much as possible and making the train a more attractive option?

Otherwise it's one step forward and two back?

[Thatcham Crossing]

Don't think you'll find any 387's beyond Newbury TG!

My understanding is that the Reading-Newbury "shuttle" will be 387's, but everything else 800's.

And as for....

Little Bedwyn

....you are joking II?

[grahame]

I agree it's starting to sound like a "stopper" to the South West if this wish list becomes reality - I'm sure Theale, Thatcham, Kintbury, Hungerford, Bedwyn etc all warrant a service however surely these should be provided by 387s allowing the 800s to be "fast", stopping at major stations on their way to the South West, cutting journey times as much as possible and making the train a more attractive option?

Otherwise it's one step forward and two back?

Err ... we're looking at the second train in the hour.  The first one is none-stop London - Reading (not even calling at Taplow) the none-stop to Taunton ... current services is about one an hour but all sorts of stopping patterns. 

Having got string up all the way to Newbury (and what cost those of us further west are paying for the disruption this year!), logic is to run 2 x electric trains into Newbury each hour, two passenger trains west of Newbury - the express I mentioned above that does the 3 hours which is make or break for the Plymouth economy, and one serving nearly all intermediate stations.  Its case is made without new stations, by the way (answering another post), but it would be an enabler should one be built.

[TaplowGreen]

I agree it's starting to sound like a "stopper" to the South West if this wish list becomes reality - I'm sure Theale, Thatcham, Kintbury, Hungerford, Bedwyn etc all warrant a service however surely these should be provided by 387s allowing the 800s to be "fast", stopping at major stations on their way to the South West, cutting journey times as much as possible and making the train a more attractive option?

Otherwise it's one step forward and two back?

Err ... we're looking at the second train in the hour.  The first one is none-stop London - Reading (not even calling at Taplow) the none-stop to Taunton ... current services is about one an hour but all sorts of stopping patterns. 

Having got string up all the way to Newbury (and what cost those of us further west are paying for the disruption this year!), logic is to run 2 x electric trains into Newbury each hour, two passenger trains west of Newbury - the express I mentioned above that does the 3 hours which is make or break for the Plymouth economy, and one serving nearly all intermediate stations.  Its case is made without new stations, by the way (answering another post), but it would be an enabler should one be built.

Not sure where the relevance to Taplow sits in the context under discussion? (Although it does have c250,000 passengers a year, versus less than 100,000 for Kintbury!) 

It is a good example of my point however - I wouldn't expect IETs^▸ (Intercity Express Train) to stop there - local stations and the railway generally are surely best served by frequent and reliable stopping services to larger stations/interchanges where longer distance services can be picked up?

If your aspiration is to get to a place where "nearly all intermediate stations" are served, then "semi fast" is going to be a very subjective term indeed - exactly how many stations are involved, and what (roughly) are the gaps between them?

Surely IETs are designed for long stretches at high speed, not stopping every few minutes to pick up half a dozen passengers out in the sticks? (.....and I write that as someone who lives out in the sticks!!!) 

[grahame]

Not sure where the relevance to Taplow sits in the context under discussion? (Although it does have c250,000 passengers a year, versus less than 100,000 for Kintbury!) 

A jocular choice based on your forum name of a station that would clearly not be logical!

It is a good example of my point however - I wouldn't expect IETs^▸ (Intercity Express Train) to stop there - local stations and the railway generally are surely best served by frequent and reliable stopping services to larger stations/interchanges where longer distance services can be picked up?

If your aspiration is to get to a place where "nearly all intermediate stations" are served, then "semi fast" is going to be a very subjective term indeed - exactly how many stations are involved, and what (roughly) are the gaps between them?

Surely IETs are designed for long stretches at high speed, not stopping every few minutes to pick up half a dozen passengers out in the sticks? (.....and I write that as someone who lives out in the sticks!!!) 

HSTs^▸ (High Speed Train) were designed for that (and look at them now!) ...

There are some long stretches out in the "sticks".   Pewsey to Westbury.  Castle Cary to Taunton - but indeed the term is subjective. Add Bruton and you may have "all stations". And you may have a logical service too, with the fast train exchanging passengers both ways with the slow train at Exeter.  If not IETs, then perhaps there's something that could be cascaded with fewer carriages between really fast power cars - can't image what that could be though 

[TaplowGreen]

Not sure where the relevance to Taplow sits in the context under discussion? (Although it does have c250,000 passengers a year, versus less than 100,000 for Kintbury!) 

A jocular choice based on your forum name of a station that would clearly not be logical!

It is a good example of my point however - I wouldn't expect IETs^▸ (Intercity Express Train) to stop there - local stations and the railway generally are surely best served by frequent and reliable stopping services to larger stations/interchanges where longer distance services can be picked up?

If your aspiration is to get to a place where "nearly all intermediate stations" are served, then "semi fast" is going to be a very subjective term indeed - exactly how many stations are involved, and what (roughly) are the gaps between them?

Surely IETs are designed for long stretches at high speed, not stopping every few minutes to pick up half a dozen passengers out in the sticks? (.....and I write that as someone who lives out in the sticks!!!) 

HSTs^▸ (High Speed Train) were designed for that (and look at them now!) ...

There are some long stretches out in the "sticks".   Pewsey to Westbury.  Castle Cary to Taunton - but indeed the term is subjective. Add Bruton and you may have "all stations". And you may have a logical service too, with the fast train exchanging passengers both ways with the slow train at Exeter.  If not IETs, then perhaps there's something that could be cascaded with fewer carriages between really fast power cars - can't image what that could be though 

"HSTs were designed for that (and look at them now!) ..."


..................say no more.