BoJ on Direct Route

[whole diary]

[Fourbee]

To use an example: is a Waterloo - Portsmouth Harbour ticket valid for Break of Journey at, say, Eastleigh (on a Waterloo-Portsmouth via Basingstoke/Fareham service)?

I ask, because I believe the phrasing has changed in the National Rail Conditions of Travel vs. the NRCOC^▸ (National Rail Conditions of Carriage) and it looked slightly ambiguous to me.

[JayMac]

First off, it depends on ticket type held. If its an Anytime, Off Peak, or Super Off Peak, then yes, a Break of Journey (BoJ^▸ (Break of Journey)) is permitted. If its an Advance Purchase then you can not break your journey, except to change trains as per itinerary.

Next, is the station you wish to BoJ at on a permitted route between origin and destination? In the example asked, London Waterloo to Portsmouth Harbour via Eastleigh is a permitted route, so yes, you can BoJ there.

[grahame]

Next, is the station you wish to BoJ^▸ (Break of Journey) at on a permitted route between origin and destination? In the example asked, London Waterloo to Portsmouth Harbour via Eastleigh is a permitted route, so yes, you can BoJ there.

I think there are a couple of exceptions??

a) Break of journey not allowed at an intermediate underground station if your ticket include cross London?  Or rather you can break, but have to resume at National Rail kick off point

b) Direct trains always a permitted route - but I don't think Break of Journey allowed if the direct train takes a route that would not otherwise be permitted.   I'm thinking of Fife Circle trains - Edinburgh to Dunfermline probably would not allow break of journey at Kircaldy. 

[Fourbee]

b) Direct trains always a permitted route - but I don't think Break of Journey allowed if the direct train takes a route that would not otherwise be permitted.   I'm thinking of Fife Circle trains - Edinburgh to Dunfermline probably would not allow break of journey at Kircaldy. 

Yes, grahame you've got at what I failed to get at in my OP^▸ (Original Poster / topic starter) due to my bad example. I should have checked as there are extra maps quoted when the origin is London.

How about Woking-Portsmouth on the same service on a non-advance ticket breaking at Eastleigh?

Permitted routes quoted on map PD (SW is irrelevant as far as I can see) i.e. via Guildford.

The National Routing Guide instructions say The Route is a Permitted Route for that journey by virtue of the customer travelling on an advertised through train plus this in the NRCOT^▸ (National Rail Conditions of Travel):

16.4
Generally, you may start, or break and resume, a journey (in either direction
in the case of a return Ticket) at any intermediate station, as long as the
Ticket you hold is valid for the trains you want to use. However, this may not
be the case with some through services that take an indirect route. You may
also end your journey (in either direction in the case of a return Ticket) before
the destination shown on the Ticket.

NFORMATION: For example, where a train service makes a circular
journey, you may travel either way to the destination on your
ticket. However, you would not normally be allowed to get off at an
intermediate station where the fare would have been higher.

[Fourbee]

a) Break of journey not allowed at an intermediate underground station if your ticket include cross London?  Or rather you can break, but have to resume at National Rail kick off point

That's how I understand it (again, on a non-advance ticket). Any station apart from these in the list here and you've got to pay (oyster, contactless, whatever) to resume the journey (or walk to the intended station of course):
http://www.nationalrail.co.uk/times_fares/ticket_types/46587.aspx

List of London Underground and DLR^▸ (Docklands Light Railway) Stations between which single/return tickets valid for travel ‘via London' may be used - subject to route of the through journey being made.

Aldgate, Amersham, Baker Street, Balham, Bank, Barking, Blackfriars, Blackhorse Road, Brixton, Canada Water, Cannon Street, Charing Cross, Ealing Broadway, Edgware Road, Elephant & Castle, Embankment, Euston, Euston Square, Farringdon, Finsbury Park, Greenwich (DLR), Highbury & Islington, Kensington Olympia, Kentish Town, Kings Cross / St Pancras, Lancaster Gate, Lewisham (DLR), Limehouse, Liverpool Street, London Bridge, Marylebone, Moorgate, Old Street, Paddington, Queens Park, Richmond, Seven Sisters, Shadwell, Shepherds Bush, Southwark, Stratford, Stratford International (DLR), Tottenham Hale, Tower Hill, Upminster, Vauxhall, Victoria, Walthamstow Central, Waterloo, West Brompton, West Ham, West Hampstead, Whitechapel, Wimbledon, Woolwich Arsenal (DLR)

(I sorted their table into alphabetical order in the quote)

[CyclingSid]

If I get a ticket from Reading to Portsmouth Harbour, the NR^» (Network Rail - home page) Journey Planner says I can go either via Hedge End, Southampton or Guildford. So I regularly BoJ^▸ (Break of Journey) at Fareham (Hedge End/Southampton outbound journey) and rejoin at Havant (Guilford inbound journey) is this legit or have I just been lucky so far. This is my typical sort of bicycle trip.

[stuving]

If I get a ticket from Reading to Portsmouth Harbour, the NR^» (Network Rail - home page) Journey Planner says I can go either via Hedge End, Southampton or Guildford. So I regularly BoJ^▸ (Break of Journey) at Fareham (Hedge End/Southampton outbound journey) and rejoin at Havant (Guilford inbound journey) is this legit or have I just been lucky so far. This is my typical sort of bicycle trip.

I think it's highly unlikely that's allowed. The rules don't cover that kind of jump sideways between routes, not to allow them nor to forbid them. But then neither do the rules explicitly cover a break with a jump forwards, which I think looks OK on more general grounds (i.e. that you have a valid ticket at all times and are not using any of it twice).

The trouble with what's described is that you can't really decide if the sideways jump goes forwards or if it goes backwards, so using one ticket twice over part of the route. Basically it's not the same route so the question has no answer, and while you could try an argument based on distances that is just too artificial.

[grahame]

If I get a ticket from Reading to Portsmouth Harbour, the NR^» (Network Rail - home page) Journey Planner says I can go either via Hedge End, Southampton or Guildford. So I regularly BoJ^▸ (Break of Journey) at Fareham (Hedge End/Southampton outbound journey) and rejoin at Havant (Guilford inbound journey) is this legit or have I just been lucky so far. This is my typical sort of bicycle trip.

I think it's highly unlikely that's allowed.

I'm going to disagree. As I read it CyclingSid is using the OUTWARD ticket and stopping short at Fareham, then the INWARD ticket to get home from Havant, and that's fine.    If he's continuing his journey from Havant into Portsmouth, I would agree that it's a very grey area!

[stuving]

If I get a ticket from Reading to Portsmouth Harbour, the NR^» (Network Rail - home page) Journey Planner says I can go either via Hedge End, Southampton or Guildford. So I regularly BoJ^▸ (Break of Journey) at Fareham (Hedge End/Southampton outbound journey) and rejoin at Havant (Guilford inbound journey) is this legit or have I just been lucky so far. This is my typical sort of bicycle trip.

I think it's highly unlikely that's allowed.

I'm going to disagree. As I read it CyclingSid is using the OUTWARD ticket and stopping short at Fareham, then the INWARD ticket to get home from Havant, and that's fine.    If he's continuing his journey from Havant into Portsmouth, I would agree that it's a very grey area!

Yes, you're right - I misread that (for which I shall blame the small type). I see no problem at all with different BoJs on what are two separate journeys. I apologise for that, unless you think an unsolicited answer to a slightly silly question is of any use.

[paul7575]

I’d caution that Reading <> Portsmouth group is not mapped via Southampton.  NRES^▸ (National Rail Enquiry Service) will give an itinerary, but will quote a higher fare with multiple tickets.

Paul

[grahame]

I see no problem at all with different BoJs^▸ (Break of Journey) on what are two separate journeys. ... unless you think an unsolicited answer to a slightly silly question is of any use.

It's not silly ... I remember asking that very question though with different stations many years ago.  Concluded it was a very grey area.