The End Of Diesel Traction In The UK?

[whole diary]

[grahame]

BoJo and JoJo will enter the language like BoBo and CoCo.

A JoJo has two bogies each with 10 powered axles on each side?

[grahame]

Taking a step back on both this thread and the hydrogen trains thread at http://www.firstgreatwestern.info/coffeeshop/index.php?topic=19251 , it strikes me that the drive on all trains these days is electrical - the last trains which did not have electric motors were the bubble cars, I suspect.  I am subject to correction.

But - if I am right - are we not looking purely at how we get electricity to those motors, rather than at whether they are "electric" trains or not.  And then we have options ...
1. Continuous connection
2. Intermittent connection with short term storage and release / conversion
3. Occasional linkage in with signifiant storage and release / conversion
4. Local environmental sourcing of energy, probably with local storage

What do I mean by no. 4 - Solar panels on the roof and the side of the train, and/or wind turbines that they put up like pantographs at turn around stations and when parked up between duties / overnight, with battery and/or capacitor stores.   You could add a pantograph, an ability to run a cable across the car park to the car charging point ... and a little (max speed 30 m.p.h.) get-out-of-trouble diesel engine if all else fails.   

[ellendune]

Taking a step back on both this thread and the hydrogen trains thread at http://www.firstgreatwestern.info/coffeeshop/index.php?topic=19251 , it strikes me that the drive on all trains these days is electrical - the last trains which did not have electric motors were the bubble cars, I suspect.  I am subject to correction.  

I am pretty sure all the 14x and 15x units have mechanical transmission,

[mjones]

Yes, automatic gearboxes with hydraulic transmission are used in most current DMUs^▸ (Diesel Multiple Unit), including 180s, even though IIRC^▸ (if I recall/remember/read correctly) they use the same engines as the Voyagers, which do have electric transmission.

[grahame]

Yes, automatic gearboxes with hydraulic transmission are used in most current DMUs^▸ (Diesel Multiple Unit), including 180s, even though IIRC^▸ (if I recall/remember/read correctly) they use the same engines as the Voyagers, which do have electric transmission.

Ah - OK - corrected then - but perhaps not a show-stopper to some of the principles / ideas

[mjones]

Indeed. There are retrofit hybrid traction systems being developed for buses, so this sort of thing may become an option for the more recent DMUs^▸ (Diesel Multiple Unit) at some point.

[onthecushions]

You can still use Voith hydraulic transmissions with electrical power - you just need to drive the pump electrically rather than with an IC^▸ (Inter City) engine.

You can also run diesel engines on other fuels, such as CNG^▸ (Compressed Natural Gas), with c8% added diesel to give ignition.

Or you can learn how to electrify economically.

OTC

[TonyK]

A JoJo has two bogies each with 10 powered axles on each side?

I think that JoJo and BoJo will be wind-up trains.

[Western Pathfinder]

Voith hydraulich transmission units are time proved units
After all I've had one fitted since the 1960s 😁

[Red Squirrel]

You can still use Voith hydraulic transmissions with electrical power - you just need to drive the pump electrically rather than with an IC^▸ (Inter City) engine.

You can also run diesel engines on other fuels, such as CNG^▸ (Compressed Natural Gas), with c8% added diesel to give ignition.

Or you can learn how to electrify economically.

OTC

Electrically-pumped hydraulic transmission is right up there with electro-steam in terms of efficiency and apparent logic. Which isn't to say there'd never be a good reason to do it, but it's hard to see what it might be!

[Bmblbzzz]

A JoJo has two bogies each with 10 powered axles on each side?

I think that JoJo and BoJo will be wind-up trains.

JoJo winds up the passengers, BoJo does the same but only past Calais.

[onthecushions]

Electrically-pumped hydraulic transmission is right up there with electro-steam in terms of efficiency and apparent logic. Which isn't to say there'd never be a good reason to do it, but it's hard to see what it might be!

The hydraulic pump doesn't know what's driving it; its power absorbed depends on its impeller speed and Q/H operating point. An inverter driven motor must be more agile than a diesel engine and might well have advantages over a direct motor drive to the bogie gearbox. It's still probably too complex to be a first choice, though.

OTC

[onthecushions]

Old topic admittedly but Grayling (SoS DfT^» (Department for Transport - about)) wrote to the RIA on 12/7/18 confirming that Transpennine electrification is still on for Manchester - York but with extensive Civil works to improve speeds, timings etc. on the hilly bits, with a £2.9Bn budget in CP6^▸ (Control Period 6 - The five year period between 2019 and 2024).

Also Jo Jo (Railways Minister) repeated the same to Hull MP^▸ (Member of Parliament) in emergency Q's on 18/7/18,

Its in a Railway Gazette Article and was on the on-line Hansard video clip.

Leeds - York affects XC^▸ (Cross Country Trains (franchise)) as well as TP, (and Yorks Metro) being a mirror of Manchester to N-le-W.

Sorry if there's a more appropriate topic.

OTC