Barnstaple ('Tarka') Line - services, facilities, events and incidents (merged posts)

[whole diary]

[TonyK]

So, though there are questions on their suitability, the Cardiff to Portsmouth run's got the trains cascades from London to Reading electrification - the hand-me-downs, the rescues.  We do love our rescue dog, so perhaps we will learn to love them.   Even though better suited to shorter runs and, to be fair, lots of journeys on Cardiff - Portsmouth ARE shorter ones.  Wide mid-carriage doors help the people who pile in and out at intermediate stations  - Temple Meads, Bath Spa, Westbury, Salisbury, Southampton.

Nail hit firmly on head. A train starting at Barnstaple at peak times will largely fill en route with many more passengers getting on at intermediate stations than getting off, before emptying in Exeter. A train starting in Cardiff at peak time will lose quite a few pax at Newport, while gaining quite a few, pick up a few at Severn Tunnel Junction and Patchway, disgorge many at Filton Abbey Wood and many more at Temple Meads, before taking a whole pile of new folks to Bath. Further mixtures of old and new passengers will occur thereafter. Few will ride the train from Cardiff all the way to Portsmouth, but many will do so between Barnstaple and Exeter Central.

[Apedlar12]

Seemed to notice that last night some test runs of a turbo were due to run to Barnstaple and Exmouth however this never happened... I suppose this will be re-scheduled for another time?

If this is in the wrong place then I am happy to remove it...

[Umberleigh]

Will there be an IET^▸ (Intercity Express Train) test run to Barnstaple? When the 125s were introduced there were at least two test runs, one of which was witnessed by school friends passing through Eggesford in - I believe -1978 (also photos out there on the internet)

[phile]

Will there be an IET^▸ (Intercity Express Train) test run to Barnstaple? When the 125s were introduced there were at least two test runs, one of which was witnessed by school friends passing through Eggesford in - I believe -1978 (also photos out there on the internet)

There wouldn't be any testing unless there was a definite requirement to operate along the route

[MarkHopwood]

Let me put a couple more points which may help address why the Tarka^▸ (Line from Barnstaple to Exeter) line trains are going to be 158s.

GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway) has 43 carriages of class 158 in the franchise and the Cardiff - Portsmouth service of hourly trains has an 8 hour cycle.  At 3 cars per train, that was 24 carriages spoken for ... and two more for the Brightons and you've spoken for 30 carriages ... couple of other trains running with 158s (remember there are 13 x 3 car and 2 x 2 car) and by the time you take a couple of sets out at a time (overhaul etc)  you've used the full fleet.

Increase the 8 trains in the cycle to 5 carriages, and immediately you've used 40 out of 43.  Even if you send something else to Brighton and on rigorously remove the extra diagrams, you ain't got enough.  So how about bringing some more into the franchise?    You know how much we like the 158s - well, tough, so does everyone else and the cries of "you ain't having mine" ring out from Thurso to Norwich and Fishguard ...

What else, then?   There are 46 carriages of class 150 in the franchise - 20 x 2 car plus 2 x 3 car. I suppose all the Cardiff - Portsmouths could be 158 + 150, but the 150 units are top speed 75 mph not 90 mph, so you'll effect performance, and the 150 carriages will probably be less popular - and they're also mighty useful on stop / start lines where lots of people are getting in and out every few minutes - Devon Metro except for Barnstaple, Falmouth, St. Ives spring to mind, as well as Bristol suburbs / Bristol Metro.

You can't couple up a 2 car 165 to a 3 car 158 ... so there's another possibility gone.

Castle and Classics cannot run via Hamble, so they's out

Courgettes probably aren't cleared via Hamble either, and running new 125 mph trains on a service that's not pointing towards London would be infra dig anywhere south of the Watford Gap.

So, though there are questions on their suitability, the Cardiff to Portsmouth run's got the trains cascades from London to Reading electrification - the hand-me-downs, the rescues.  We do love our rescue dog, so perhaps we will learn to love them.   Even though better suited to shorter runs and, to be fair, lots of journeys on Cardiff - Portsmouth ARE shorter ones.  Wide mid-carriage doors help the people who pile in and out at intermediate stations  - Temple Meads, Bath Spa, Westbury, Salisbury, Southampton.

So - where do the 158s go?   They're ideal for Cardiff - Taunton - Beyond.   They're ideal for the Cornish main line, and the regional extensions of that.  They're also ideal for the Barnstaple line, as the majority of its traffic is end to end - you don't have major flows of people on and off at Morchard Road, or crowds at Copplestone so although some services stop a lot, there's no need for provision for heavy intermediate loading and unloading.

The point about gauging of the 165 / 166 has also been made ... and there is sense in keeping trains that can be coupled to each other on the same set of lines, keeping maintenance of particular types in particular depots.

I can see why there are 9 carriages of 158 (out of 43) on the Barny and, yes, I would love to see them routinely on the Weymouth run - which DOES have the metrics for which they are very suitable and 3+2 is not (long, long journeys by many people to / from Weymouth).

Long post ... some application of guesswork and logic therein, but as you shake out the figures you start to see "why". Please don't shoot the messenger - the Cardiff / Portsmouth should be running with a fleet of 12 x 4 car 172s - but that order was cancelled in favour of GWR electrification, which has brought us the turbos.

Grahame makes some good and fair points. Our rolling stock cascade is about trying to deliver as much improvement as we could but I recognise some people will have their issues.

Cardiff to Portsmouth is a hard route to develop a strategy for because it carries so many different passengers with different needs. I think the Class 166 is being treated slightly unfairly - until recently they were carrying passengers on journeys from Paddington to Hereford. Customers travelling long distance may choose to sit in one of the 2+2 seated areas but the benefits of a five car turbo vice a three car 158 are enormous.

In due course we may get a chance to develop the route further.

[grahame]

166208 visited Barnstaple around one O'clock this morning - said to be on gauge clearance run and first visit of a turbo to Barnstaple.  When I last heard, plan was to run 3 car 158s on the Barnstaple line - has that changed for some  / all workings, or is this just a precautionary clearance?

How do members feel about 166 (and presumably 165) Turbos on the Barnstaple services?  What about Exmouth and Paignton?

[REVUpminster]

Do these have 1st class which would not be needed. Paignton-Exmouth need the 4 coach 2x150/2 unless they are to replace the pacers.

[eightonedee]

First class avaiiability seems to depend on whim!

If experience on the North Downs is anything to go by, units with 1st class will be used on all standard class services, so the savvy regular traveler will go to any part of the train with first class seats, ignore any antimacassars (there's no consistency between when they are installed and when first class is actually offered) and have a better wider seat at no extra cost. Some 2 car 165s no longer have ex-1st class seats (and I believe all have been officially downgraded to standard only, even if they do), and 166s have first class seats at both cab ends, one of which is now standard.

Hope that helps!

[Electric train]

166208 visited Barnstaple around one O'clock this morning - said to be on gauge clearance run and first visit of a turbo to Barnstaple.  When I last heard, plan was to run 3 car 158s on the Barnstaple line - has that changed for some  / all workings, or is this just a precautionary clearance?

How do members feel about 166 (and presumably 165) Turbos on the Barnstaple services?  What about Exmouth and Paignton?

Could be for diagraming flexablity, ie GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway) would be able to deploy their fleet more effectively

[grahame]

I don't think I've seen anything labelled as "First Class" on any of the turbo trains working out from St Phillips' Marsh and suspect that any being transferred with those facilities are being degraded.  Timetables don't (to my knowledge) show any SPM^▸ (St Philip's Marsh (Bristol depot)) based turn workings with first class either, though there are a lot of announcements telling you which zone to wait in for first class just before they pull in.  (Zone 5 for standard class and zone 6 for first class)

I would be very surprised to see anything in Devon run with a 165/166 and offering first class beyond the left-over extra bit of space from Thames Valley days.  I would certainly not expect to see turbos on Devon services offering in first class what you'll routinely find out of Euston and Kings Cross with tickets including (as I understand it) full food service at seat at certain times of day.

[Rhydgaled]

How do members feel about 166 (and presumably 165) Turbos on the Barnstaple services?

They would be rather less unsuitable for Exeter-Barnstaple than for Cardiff-Portsmouth in my view. Whether they would actually be suitable for Barnstaple services versus, say, class 150/2s might depend on passenger loading versus train length. In other words, is a 3-car class 166 (ideally with all 2+3 seating removed and replaced with 2+2) sufficient for passenger numbers or do you need to run units in mutiple in which case something with unit-end gangways would be better.

[Umberleigh]

No turbos on the Barney please. We’ve been promised air-conditioning and that’s what we expect.

[Timmer]

No turbos on the Barney please. We’ve been promised air-conditioning and that’s what we expect.

Sorry to disappoint but the air con on the 158’s isn’t anything to get excited about.

[eightonedee]

Quote from: Umberleigh on Today at 02:17:18 pm
No turbos on the Barney please. We’ve been promised air-conditioning and that’s what we expect.
Sorry to disappoint but the air con on the 158’s isn’t anything to get excited about.

...and if you get a 165 with retro-fitted air cooling it works well - when it works. It does seem though entirely random whether air-cooling is fitted when the partial refitting (it's too little to justify "refurbishment" as a label) occurs

[IndustryInsider]

Most of the 165s have now had air cooling fitted. It works almost all of the time the windows are kept shut.  166s still have air-con from 5-10 years ago.  It works about 50% of the time when windows are shut.