Virgin Trains decision to stop selling Daily Mail, subsequently reversed

[whole diary]

[Red Squirrel]

Doesn't that comment also apply to the Daily Mail then?

Good point Chris. Also applies to The Guardian too which is losing money hand over fist.

Q: What's the best way to make a small fortune in the newspaper business?
A: Start with a large one.

[grahame]

We had a very interesting "editorial" to make each morning when we ran a hotel here in Melksham - what handful / selection of newspapers to lay out in the breakfast room for people to read.    I say "editorial" - having one of every paper available at the local garage would have been far too expensive, and we did have a decision to make on a daily basis.    Guests requests and preferences met, but then it was largely down to the staff member concerned; typically tried to avoid 2 papers with same lead story, and to provide something with a front page that would be of interest and be unlikely to offend.

[Red Squirrel]

Years ago I had reason to stay for a period of time in a hotel near Derby. Every Monday when I checked in, they'd ask if I wanted a daily paper, I'd say 'yes, please', and for the rest of the week each morning I would find a copy of my preferred paper outside my door together with a similar-looking organ called, if memory serves me correctly, the Toryguff.

During the months I was there, I tried all manner of ways to get them to stop inflicting this upon me - polite requests, slightly ruder requests, signs on my door, just leaving it outside (it would be neatly moved to my desk by the cleaners), but nothing worked. I could never understand what purpose was served by this - presumably in a 200-room hotel there would be a handful of people who would be pleased to get their Toryguff for free, but by far the majority of guests would have simply thrown them away.

[broadgage]

Newspapers often supply free or heavily subsidised copies to large organisations who wish to give them to customers. The theory is of course that some of those customers will like the free newspaper and purchase copies in future.

[ellendune]

Newspapers often supply free or heavily subsidised copies to large organisations who wish to give them to customers. The theory is of course that some of those customers will like the free newspaper and purchase copies in future.

It also appears on the official circulation figures for the paper that justifies the advertising rates.  So the deal was they probably had to deliver it.

[JayMac]

For the record, I don't read the Mail, or the Sun, Morning Star, Railway Magazine, The Beano etc etc but I'd defend to the death the right of anyone who wished to, wherever they choose to, whether or not I agree with the content or the readers.

And I'd defend to the death the right of any retailer to chose what they stock. And their right to say why they've chosen not to.

[Red Squirrel]

Newspapers often supply free or heavily subsidised copies to large organisations who wish to give them to customers. The theory is of course that some of those customers will like the free newspaper and purchase copies in future.

It also appears on the official circulation figures for the paper that justifies the advertising rates.  So the deal was they probably had to deliver it.

Up to a point. The ABC is very precise about how it counts freely circulated copies, and advertisers are presumably not easily fooled.

[stuving]

Newspapers often supply free or heavily subsidised copies to large organisations who wish to give them to customers. The theory is of course that some of those customers will like the free newspaper and purchase copies in future.

It also appears on the official circulation figures for the paper that justifies the advertising rates.  So the deal was they probably had to deliver it.

Up to a point. The ABC is very precise about how it counts freely circulated copies, and advertisers are presumably not easily fooled.

ABD list lot of different kinds of free copy, but as far as I can see none of them applies to national newspapers, for which this is the reporting standard.

However, that doesn't appear to exclude all free copies by defining them, only by not including them where ABC has a definition elsewhere that does. So, for example, Waitrose don't give you free papers, but a discount off your bill equal to the paper's cost. I've always assumed that was a way of getting those copies into ABC figures, but does that trick really work?

[Red Squirrel]

Newspapers often supply free or heavily subsidised copies to large organisations who wish to give them to customers. The theory is of course that some of those customers will like the free newspaper and purchase copies in future.

It also appears on the official circulation figures for the paper that justifies the advertising rates.  So the deal was they probably had to deliver it.

Up to a point. The ABC is very precise about how it counts freely circulated copies, and advertisers are presumably not easily fooled.

ABD list lot of different kinds of free copy, but as far as I can see none of them applies to national newspapers, for which this is the reporting standard.

However, that doesn't appear to exclude all free copies by defining them, only by not including them where ABC has a definition elsewhere that does. So, for example, Waitrose don't give you free papers, but a discount off your bill equal to the paper's cost. I've always assumed that was a way of getting those copies into ABC figures, but does that trick really work?

You're quoting a standard, and I'm quoting a defined term. Let's call the whole thing off

When ABC figures are published (whether for national or, to the extent that such things still exist, local newspapers) the figures are usually simplified into 'paid for' and 'free' circulations. I'm sure if you paid the ABC's fees and read their full report (which you would, if you were an advertiser), you'd get all the details of the various nuanced forms of free circulation; even Waitrose's apparant leger de main.

Anyway, fascinating though all this is it will be as relevant as the telephone box in a few years.

[stuving]

You're quoting a standard, and I'm quoting a defined term. Let's call the whole thing off

When ABC figures are published (whether for national or, to the extent that such things still exist, local newspapers) the figures are usually simplified into 'paid for' and 'free' circulations. I'm sure if you paid the ABC's fees and read their full report (which you would, if you were an advertiser), you'd get all the details of the various nuanced forms of free circulation; even Waitrose's apparant leger de main.

Anyway, fascinating though all this is it will be as relevant as the telephone box in a few years.

That's it - there is a separate standard for "ABC Bulk Distribution", defining several flavours of free copy (know as "bulks"). The trade and advertisers see the ABC reports that list these separately, along with various sorts of digital. We just see media reports and hear papers' own (muted) trumpets, where the print copies are all lumped together to make life look more cheerful for some of them.

[TaplowGreen]

Ahhhhhh, now I see! Nice bit of distraction from Beardie!

http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/virgin-trains-richard-branson-daily-mail-censorship-nhs-privatisation-a8151366.html

[ChrisB]

Hmmm - if only the press (Indy included) would report that it wasn't a bail-out of VTEC - but a contract broken by the Government (upgrade of the East Coast being a requirement for VTEC to run its contracted higher frequency timetable), and either VTEC took the Government to court for a load of compensation or did what it did & cut the contract length.

It bailed *itself* out this time....but the point about NHS services is fair comment none the less.

[broadgage]

For the record, I don't read the Mail, or the Sun, Morning Star, Railway Magazine, The Beano etc etc but I'd defend to the death the right of anyone who wished to, wherever they choose to, whether or not I agree with the content or the readers.

And I'd defend to the death the right of any retailer to chose what they stock. And their right to say why they've chosen not to.

Not certain that I would agree with the second part.
Whilst I would defend the right of Virgin trains to sell or to not sell whatever newspapers they choose, I feel differently about large retailers.
If a major chain of news agents refuse to sell a popular newspaper, then that IMO^▸ (in my opinion) is getting a bit too like censorship.

If a TOC^▸ (Train Operating Company) do not wish to sell a particular newspaper, that is fine, anyone desiring a copy can purchase it elsewhere. If however the nearest newsagents were all owned or controlled by one company who refused to sell the paper, then I would be rather uneasy.

[ChrisB]

Been to Liverpool & tried to buy the Sun?

Guess you're unsupportive of that ban then?

[Timmer]

Hmmm - if only the press (Indy included) would report that it wasn't a bail-out of VTEC.

ahhhh but that wouldn't make a good story would it?